Should I just pay?

beatsneedrhymes

I have read through the NEWBIES thread and, brilliant though it is (thank you), much of the advice seems to be predicated on the idea that you have a sound reason for contesting the 'fine'.

I'll keep it brief: there is a clear sign at the entrance to the car park in which a PCN was applied to my windscreen while the driver was parked there. It says you need a parking permit. The driver doesn’t have one. The largest writing on the sign says you can be fined up to £100. The sign is visible, even at night (which is when the ticket was applied). According to the ticket, the car was observed being parked there for 15 minutes.

Is it worth contesting that and possibly ending up in court (the threads where people have done so seem scary) and potentially paying much more? Do I have a leg to stand on, please?

D_P_Dance

It is not a finme.  It is a claim for compensation they allege they suffered when, allegedly. you braed an alleged contract.  It ia most likely a scam so why should you pay?  If you are wondering if you hafe a leg to stand on read some of the other threads.  Have you complained to your MP?

If you have the time, the ability, and the inclination, fight it.  

Umkomaas

beatsneedrhymes said:

I have read through the NEWBIES thread and, brilliant though it is (thank you), much of the advice seems to be predicated on the idea that you have a sound reason for contesting the 'fine'.

Is it worth contesting that and possibly ending up in court (the threads where people have done so seem scary) and potentially paying much more? Do I have a leg to stand on, please?

Do you honestly think you're going to get any regular, on a money saving forum, dedicated to fighting unfair private parking charges, telling you to pay this?

Half_way

Why did the vehicle park there? 
Did it really say vehicles will be fined?

Sounds like sometimes trying a scam

beatsneedrhymes

D_P_Dance said:

It is not a finme.  It is a claim for compensation they allege they suffered when, allegedly. you braed an alleged contract.  It ia most likely a scam so why should you pay?  If you are wondering if you hafe a leg to stand on read some of the other threads.  Have you complained to your MP?

If you have the time, the ability, and the inclination, fight it.  

Thank you for your reply.

I have read many other threads. None, as far as I could find, make mention of someone contesting a 'fine' (again, I understand this is actually not a fine but an invoice) where the evidence against them seems so clear cut.

As for complaining to my MP, as is often mentioned on here, I can't see how that would result in a change to my situation – certainly not before the 'fine' increases or I am taken to court.

Basically: what are the chances Secure A Space are going to just waive my 'fine' when the evidence against me is so hard for me to argue against – in an appeal to them, an appeal to POPLA, or, later, in court, please? None of those are going to be interested if it is a scam or not – everything seems to rest on me catching out Secure A Space on a technicality somewhere along the way and, given the circumstances outlined above, I feel like they hold better cards in this game than I do.

Do I actually have a leg to stand on, or is this likely to go 'all the way' please, i.e. end up in court? 

D_P_Dance

The largest writing on the sign says you can be fined up to £100.

If the word "fine" appears on the sign or the paperwork the PCN must be cancelled as it breaches the ATS'a Code of Conduct .
If you are correct OP please complain to the ATA, Trading Standards, and your MP.  

Umkomaas

As for complaining to my MP, as is often mentioned on here, I can't see how that would result in a change to my situation – certainly not before the 'fine' increases or I am taken to court.

Do you not think there's a bigger picture?  Maybe it's the main reason why regulars put in so much of their own time here. 

beatsneedrhymes

I understand there is a bigger picture, Umkomaas. Hopefully you also understand people seek advice on here on how best to deal with issues facing them in particular. Being told to think about the bigger picture does not help with that.

I am using 'fine' (always in quote marks) as shorthand. Apologies if that has muddied the waters. Secure A Space don't use that wording on the sign. I was just trying to keep my description of the situation brief.

The mantra here is always fight, fight, fight the tickets. And that probably helps the bigger agenda (which is one I agree with, by the way). But if it lands me in court, with all the associated costs, that is not helpful advice.

D_P_Dance

We recently learned of a case where a complaint to an MP resulted in the ticket being cancelled. nI am sure theere have been a lot more.

OP, did they use the word "fine" on their signs and/or paperwork or did they not?

Le_Kirk

@D_P_Dance, the OP has explained that the word "fine" does not appear on the signs and he/she uses it as short hand for speculative invoice.

@beatsneedrhymes what you need to do is sort out in your own mind what reason the driver parked when it stated permit holders only UNLESS of course it didn't say that on the signs.  Assuming you have spoken to the driver, what sort of car park was it?  Was there a big P inviting anyone to park?  Was there a PDT?  Was it a workplace car park and does the driver work there?

beatsneedrhymes

Le_Kirk said:

@D_P_Dance, the OP has explained that the word "fine" does not appear on the signs and he/she uses it as short hand for speculative invoice.

@beatsneedrhymes what you need to do is sort out in your own mind what reason you parked when it stated permit holders only UNLESS of course it didn't say that on the signs.  What sort of car park was it?  Was there a big P inviting you (or anyone) to park?  Was there a PDT?  Was it a workplace car park and do you work there?

Thank you for your reply. You're quite right about sorting it out in my own mind.

All of this is prompted by me deliberating whether to appeal today, before the 14 days reduced rate (£60) period is up, or waiting for the 25/26 day mark as recommended on the Newbies thread – by which time I could be facing the £100 charge and maybe much more in terms of costs, time and stress if it all ends up in court. 

I have read on the forum that Secure A Space *rarely* prosecute but that means, on occasion, they do. And my worry is mine seems a more open and shut case than most.

It's a private car park. It's near where the driver wicks but not a workplace car park; the company has no claim to it at all. The sign says it's for permit holders only. The car was parked there while the driver was at work (many at work do – a colleague was parked there at the same time and didn't receive a ticket, but I realise dragging them into it is no defence. They were lucky; the driver was not.)

There is a big P on the sign.

So sorry, I tried looking it up but I can't figure out what PDT stands for.