PIP have conned me out of 2 years mobility

calcotti

FTBuyeruk said:

enhanced rate for mobility on pip is not 89 pound the actual amount is more around the 60 pound mark enhanced daily living is 89 ish

£62.55 to be exact (overlooked that in the opening post).

DinkyStars

helenjane55 said:

I originally applied for PIP and ended up getting the Daily enhanced allowance in 2019. I was not told that because I have EUPD, that I should also have received the Mobility component at a further £89.00 per week, and the form was not clear in showing that this was possible either. Mind you, being interviewed by a physio therapist, when I was claiming PIP for serious mental health illness, certainly did not help me either.

Having just received the Pip Mobility component for having EUPD for the last six months, I have just realised that because this almost went to the Tribunal Courts, but they gave it to me at the last minute, that in fact I should have been given this for 2 years, equalling £8,000! Wow, a massive amount to lose when being disabled is not my fault, and would certainly not be my choice either.

I'm now writing to ask, is there any way in which I can take PIP to a tribunal for deliberately not informing me that I could actually apply for this in the first place, we are talking 10 points on PIP Mobility alone?

EUPD has very clear symptoms, and I was diagnosed in 2019, and mental illness does not suddenly change when applying for PIP benefit.  I was completely open about having EUPD and that this was my first application. It seems so wrong that I have been penalised and only because I was not aware that I could have received this in the first place.  Surely when applying for a benefit, the department handling out the forms should ensure that the right benefits are given to the people asking for them.  How on earth are people supposed to know this fact when they go for the interview, surely it would be a legal requirement for the DWP to actually inform the applicant exactly what they are entitled to? Surely this would be the ethical way to do this, but no, it seems that the applicants have to scrabble about in the dirt to find any morsel they should be entitled to in the first place.

I have paid into the system long enough, so why is it so cryptic, and such a sheer fight to find what I am entitled to please, and then to realise that I have lost out simply because no body bothered to tell me what I was entitled in the first place?

I'd  be interested if anybody out there has any answers to this please, it is just an utter scandal not being informed, surely?  

Best wishes, and thanks, Helen

Hi Helen,

The highest rate for PIP Mobility is £62.55 this is called the Enhanced Rate; the Standard Rate is payable at £23.70 per week.

Having a diagnosis of EUPD does not mean you will qualify automatically for the mobility comportment of PIP; you have to meet the descriptors. For those reading this EUPD stands for Emotional Unstable Personality Disorder (also known as Borderline Personality Disorder)

The CAB have a great link with how the points are awarded for PIP both the Daily Living and the Mobility. You need to score between 8 and 11 points to be awarded the Standard Rate of PIP Mobility and 12 points for the Enhanced Rate.

Sadly, as others said it is not up to the DWP to award benefit on your diagnosis alone, you need to complete the form stating how you meet the descriptors or answer the questions during the assessment that are asked. Did the physiotherapist who carried out your assessment ask questions on your ability to go out alone such as can you go out alone, do you need help or support or encouragement etc. to go out.

For instance, “If you need prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant,” you would get 4 points or if “Cannot plan the route of a journey then you would get 8 points.” Or if you “Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid,” then this would be 10 points, you can only meet one descriptor so only get one lot of points. 12 points would be awarded if you “Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid.” Points could also be awarded in this area if you have difficulties with walking or pain etc.

I don’t think you can challenge an old decision, but there is nothing stopping you asking for a review of your PIP now but that would mean going through the assessment again which could take time and they could take money off you rather than award it again. It might be worth asking the DWP for a copy of the PA4 which is the medical assessment report that the physiotherapist would have used to award points, this then goes to a DWP decision maker who makes the final decision. By asking for a copy of this you can see where your points where awarded and look to see why points were not awarded.

As for the Tribunal, it sounds like the DWP did to you what they did with me, I lodged my tribunal papers after they refused my PIP after a Mandatory Reconsideration, only for them to do an internal review weeks later and phone me up and offer me the standard rate for both elements of PIP which I accepted, I could have pushed for the tribunal, but I was happy with this decision.

It is also a good idea to get any support in completing these forms if you are worried, there are charities who can help as well as Welfare Rights via perhaps a local council and the Citizens Advice Bureau. Do you have access to a CPN or a Social Worker / Therapist who could support you also.

I speak from experience of someone who was diagnosed with EUPD for more than 10 years and who challenged the decision constantly as I believed it was wrong, the label was removed two years ago and replaced with depression and anxiety and I am currently undergoing an Autism Assessment.

Helen, although completely irrelevant to PIP but many many years ago when I was awarded DLA and was on Incapacity Benefit (before ESA) I didn't know I was entitled to get SDP paid as Income Support until someone told me at the Citizens Advice Bureau I was missing out each week on this premium. I wrote to the DWP to question this stating that they hadn't paid benefits I was entitled to and it was a DWP error, long story short that went to Tribunal and I won and payments were backdated for three years.

calcotti

DinkyStars said:...I don’t think you can challenge an old decision, 

That is very misleading, it depends on how old. If the decision is less than 13 months old it can be challenged.

We can’t clarify advice for OP unless they clarify the claim history as raised in several of the replies. Unfortunately they haven’t logged in since posting on 2nd Feb.

My own interpretation is that they’ve got the award they want at tribunal and haven’t realised it will be backdated.in other words, far from being conned, they have followed a process which is provided specifically to enable them to challenge a decision. However the circumstances may be different.

(I do wish people would not quote really long posts in full - it makes for more difficult reading.)

Spoonie_Turtle

calcotti said:

My own interpretation is that they’ve got the award they want at tribunal and haven’t realised it will be backdated.in other words, far from being conned, they have followed a process which is provided specifically to enable them to challenge a decision. However the circumstances may be different.

The most confusing part of it for me is this:

Having just received the Pip Mobility component for having EUPD for the last six months, I have just realised that because this almost went to the Tribunal Courts, but they gave it to me at the last minute, that in fact I should have been given this for 2 years, equalling £8,000!

If they've been receiving the new award for the last 6 months, any backdated money owed should have been long paid.

But your interpretation does sound a more likely timeline, because to apply in 2019 and then nearly go to tribunal doesn't leave enough time for the award to subsequently be reviewed AND decided by 6 months ago.

However, this wording is also confusing me

I originally applied for PIP and ended up getting the Daily enhanced allowance in 2019.

So was the decision made in 2019, for that application?  In which case a review and taking that nearly to tribunal 2yrs later would be unusual but not impossible, if the original award was just a couple of years long.

OR.  Did OP apply for a change of circumstances after the EUPD diagnosis?  But given they don't mention any other issues that doesn't seem likely - unless they originally applied whilst undiagnosed.

*shrug* very confusing indeed.  Let's hope OP comes back to clarify.  It's only been a day so far.

poppy12345

calcotti said:

DinkyStars said:...I don’t think you can challenge an old decision, 

(I do wish people would not quote really long posts in full - it makes for more difficult reading.)

Agree with this. What's worse is when someone quotes a really long comment and replies with a few words.

peteuk

helenjane55 said:

I'm now writing to ask, is there any way in which I can take PIP to a tribunal for deliberately not informing me that I could actually apply for this in the first place, we are talking 10 points on PIP Mobility alone?

 Helen, 

From my knowledge of PIP, with the two elements of Mobility (activity 11 and 12) you will score 0 for activity 12, unless you have a physical problem.  

Therefore the only way to score 10 on Mobility is to have OPD, which means under no circumstances can you leave the house.  This alone will not score enhanced rates as you need 12 points to get enhanced, it will however get you more than 8 points for a standard rate. 

Even if you cant leave the house, if fully mobile you will still be assessed as being able to walk more than 200 meters unaided. (score 0 in activity 12).  If someone is informing you that you should be getting the enhanced mobility then I would seek further advice. 

Obviously as you have not mentioned a physical condition in your post, then I assume your fully mobile.  If this is not the case then obviously you will score for the appropriate level of mobility.   

Spoonie_Turtle

peteuk said:

helenjane55 said:

I'm now writing to ask, is there any way in which I can take PIP to a tribunal for deliberately not informing me that I could actually apply for this in the first place, we are talking 10 points on PIP Mobility alone?

 Helen, 

From my knowledge of PIP, with the two elements of Mobility (activity 11 and 12) you will score 0 for activity 12, unless you have a physical problem.  

Therefore the only way to score 10 on Mobility is to have OPD, which means under no circumstances can you leave the house.  This alone will not score enhanced rates as you need 12 points to get enhanced, it will however get you more than 8 points for a standard rate. 

This is not strictly true.  It means that, for the majority of the time they are unable to leave the house due to overwhelming psychological distress.  If however the presence of another person would allow them to leave the house - again, for the majority of the time - they may score 12 points if the presence of another person is required for most, including familiar journeys, or 10 if the person is only required for unfamiliar journeys.


Descriptor D (10 points): Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid.
… The descriptor refers to “an unfamiliar journey” rather than “any unfamiliar journey”. Accordingly, claimants can satisfy the descriptor by showing that they typically need to be accompanied by another person or an assistance dog or to use an orientation aid on the majority of days when undertaking unfamiliar journeys

Descriptor E (10 points): Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant
This descriptor applies to claimants where undertaking any journey on the majority of days causes overwhelming psychological distress (OPD) despite being aided.

‘Any journey’ means that in order to satisfy the descriptor on any particular day the person must not be able to manage to undertake a single journey.

N.B. A claimant who satisfies 1E cannot also satisfy 1F. If they cannot undertake a single journey on the majority of days due to overwhelming psychological distress, then 1E will be the applicable descriptor, even if there are occasions when they could follow a familiar route, if accompanied.

Descriptor F (12 points): Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid.
 … The descriptor refers to “a familiar journey” rather than “any familiar journey”. Accordingly, claimants can satisfy the descriptor by showing that they typically need to be accompanied by another person or an assistance dog or to use an orientation aid on the majority of days when undertaking familiar journeys


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

(Edit: tried my best to fix the formatting but apologies if it's still weird )

peteuk

Spoonie_Turtle said:

peteuk said:

helenjane55 said:

I'm now writing to ask, is there any way in which I can take PIP to a tribunal for deliberately not informing me that I could actually apply for this in the first place, we are talking 10 points on PIP Mobility alone?

 Helen, 

From my knowledge of PIP, with the two elements of Mobility (activity 11 and 12) you will score 0 for activity 12, unless you have a physical problem.  

Therefore the only way to score 10 on Mobility is to have OPD, which means under no circumstances can you leave the house.  This alone will not score enhanced rates as you need 12 points to get enhanced, it will however get you more than 8 points for a standard rate. 

This is not strictly true.  It means that, for the majority of the time they are unable to leave the house due to overwhelming psychological distress.  If however the presence of another person would allow them to leave the house - again, for the majority of the time - they may score 12 points if the presence of another person is required for most, including familiar journeys, or 10 if the person is only required for unfamiliar journeys.

The original post stated they scored 10 pts for mobility, although they also suggest they are on enhanced rates.   So therefore I discounted 11F as this scores 12 pts.   I admit that I missed 11D scoring 10 pts (oversight on my part) but the point still stands to score such points your condition has to have such an effect on your life and evidence is required. 

Spoonie_Turtle

peteuk said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

peteuk said:

helenjane55 said:

I'm now writing to ask, is there any way in which I can take PIP to a tribunal for deliberately not informing me that I could actually apply for this in the first place, we are talking 10 points on PIP Mobility alone?

 Helen, 

From my knowledge of PIP, with the two elements of Mobility (activity 11 and 12) you will score 0 for activity 12, unless you have a physical problem.  

Therefore the only way to score 10 on Mobility is to have OPD, which means under no circumstances can you leave the house.  This alone will not score enhanced rates as you need 12 points to get enhanced, it will however get you more than 8 points for a standard rate. 

This is not strictly true.  It means that, for the majority of the time they are unable to leave the house due to overwhelming psychological distress.  If however the presence of another person would allow them to leave the house - again, for the majority of the time - they may score 12 points if the presence of another person is required for most, including familiar journeys, or 10 if the person is only required for unfamiliar journeys.

The original post stated they scored 10 pts for mobility, although they also suggest they are on enhanced rates.   So therefore I discounted 11F as this scores 12 pts.   I admit that I missed 11D scoring 10 pts (oversight on my part) but the point still stands to score such points your condition has to have such an effect on your life and evidence is required. 

Sorry, yes, I forgot the context of the thread, focused on the bolded part and got a little carried away with putting the descriptor into full context with the others.