What to do about references and reason for leaving after ambushed with dismissal

SChitmehard

Hi,

I was employed in the council for 10 years then applied for a job that sounded great in the private sector. My  new employer ambushed me with a dismissal letter 4 months into my employment after I raised some concerns about the workload and a few porkies they told me about what my job would be which turned out to be a complete lie. The dismissal letter states 2 made up reasons (a) conduct t and (b) capability.

I am trying to apply for similar jobs but have a few questions:-

(1) what should I put/or say if asked for "reason for leaving" - a dismissal sounds bad and then I would have to tell they whole story of what went on to a new employer. Not a good way to start an interview.

(2) I doubt they will give me a reference so what should I do about this. I definitely can't put my line manager down as he was the snake I raised the issues with and instead of discussing them with me/ fixing them/ or telling me to resign, the manager lied and ambushed with with a dismissal.

Unfortunately I have to declare this employer on my work history as if I don't it could be classed as dishonesty and get me fired from the next job/legal action against me.

Any ideas/advice would be appreciated from forum members or people that have been in a similar position.

Thanks

Marcon

SChitmehard said:

Hi,

I was employed in the council for 10 years then applied for a job that sounded great in the private sector. My  new employer ambushed me with a dismissal letter 4 months into my employment after I raised some concerns about the workload and a few porkies they told me about what my job would be which turned out to be a complete lie. The dismissal letter states 2 made up reasons (a) conduct t and (b) capability.

I am trying to apply for similar jobs but have a few questions:-

(1) what should I put/or say if asked for "reason for leaving" - a dismissal sounds bad and then I would have to tell they whole story of what went on to a new employer. Not a good way to start an interview.

(2) I doubt they will give me a reference so what should I do about this. I definitely can't put my line manager down as he was the snake I raised the issues with and instead of discussing them with me/ fixing them/ or telling me to resign, the manager lied and ambushed with with a dismissal.

Unfortunately I have to declare this employer on my work history as if I don't it could be classed as dishonesty and get me fired from the next job/legal action against me.

Any ideas/advice would be appreciated from forum members or people that have been in a similar position.

Thanks

Emotive terms like 'ambush' and 'snake' give a pretty clear indication of how you feel about things, but that's the last thing you want a new employer to know. Obviously you aren't going to repeat those terms to them (at least I hope not!), but simmering resentment can still communicate itself. 

Say as little as possible - something along the lines of the new job didn't work out/wasn't what you had anticipated - so you are particularly keen to ensure you have a very clear picture of what any new job entails.

You talk about 'legal action against you' if you don't declare the job. That sounds a bit excessive - what sort of area do you work in?

SChitmehard

Marcon said:

SChitmehard said:

Hi,

I was employed in the council for 10 years then applied for a job that sounded great in the private sector. My  new employer ambushed me with a dismissal letter 4 months into my employment after I raised some concerns about the workload and a few porkies they told me about what my job would be which turned out to be a complete lie. The dismissal letter states 2 made up reasons (a) conduct t and (b) capability.

I am trying to apply for similar jobs but have a few questions:-

(1) what should I put/or say if asked for "reason for leaving" - a dismissal sounds bad and then I would have to tell they whole story of what went on to a new employer. Not a good way to start an interview.

(2) I doubt they will give me a reference so what should I do about this. I definitely can't put my line manager down as he was the snake I raised the issues with and instead of discussing them with me/ fixing them/ or telling me to resign, the manager lied and ambushed with with a dismissal.

Unfortunately I have to declare this employer on my work history as if I don't it could be classed as dishonesty and get me fired from the next job/legal action against me.

Any ideas/advice would be appreciated from forum members or people that have been in a similar position.

Thanks

Emotive terms like 'ambush' and 'snake' give a pretty clear indication of how you feel about things, but that's the last thing you want a new employer to know. Obviously you aren't going to repeat those terms to them (at least I hope not!), but simmering resentment can still communicate itself. 

Say as little as possible - something along the lines of the new job didn't work out/wasn't what you had anticipated - so you are particularly keen to ensure you have a very clear picture of what any new job entails.

You talk about 'legal action against you' if you don't declare the job. That sounds a bit excessive - what sort of area do you work in?

I didn't have an issue with the job/work, just that they lied to me about what I would be doing and overloaded me with work right after a very short induction - I asked for a phased increase in workload which manager stated during induction but it turned out to me a lie. I've not been unemployed in 30 years and nothing like this has ever happened to me so dismissal came as a shock and it's destroyed my unblemished employment record (so you can tell why I would use the words "snake" and "ambush").

The new jobs I am applying for are identical to the job I got dismissed from so they will probably ask the Q as to why I only lasted 4 months in previous (identical) job.

My work as a regulatory body so have to be honest about my employment history and new employers can fire you for lying about this anyway so no point doing something like that.

So that's they things I am stuck on
(a) what to say about the previous employer if it comes up at interview and
(b) what to do about refs as most employers want to contact previous employer.

Thanks.

SChitmehard

My work has a regulatory body so have to be honest about my employment history and new employers can fire you for lying about this anyway so no point doing something like that.

TELLIT01

Simply put the job was not as described at interview.  That is a simple statement of fact.

discat11

Marcon & Tellit01 have said what I would say.
If I was a prospective employer (and yes, I have been a senior manager and interviewed many times in the past 25 years), I wouldn't be paying too much attention to a job that lasted a mere 4 months -albeit similar to the one you are applying for now.

A simple 'it didn't work out', and if pressed then state the job wasn't as advertised, you tried to make it work but had to admit defeat.

Give a senior managers name as reference, the chances are a new employer will contact the company who will hand over any reference to your line manager in any case, that's probably unavoidable.

400ixl

Most companies now give a very basic reference which just states the role you did and the period you did it for. Doing anything more can lead to issues for them so they try to avoid it.

TBagpuss

As others have said, if asked, you say that it didn't work out and unfortunately the job turned out to be different to the way it was advertised / presented. That isn't a lie - if they ask directly whether you were dismissed then of course you say yes, and can raise that you were dismissed after raising concerns about lack of raining. 

You are correct that you shouldn't lie, however,  most employers are going to look at the whole picture - one job that only lasted a short time isn't a major red flag where you have been in other roles for long periods.

That said, it may be worth you reflecting on whether there is anything you would need to change if you are offered other similar job. You say that you were overloaded and expected to do too much, too soon - they said they were dismissing you on the basis of capacity . Obviously, from your perspective,  you were misled about what was involved but it may be worth thinking about whether there is any possibility you might also have misjudged what would be expected, for example in terms of how soon it's reasonable to expect you to be able to get up to speed, and what may be expected in other, similar private sector jobs. 

What was the conduct that they referred to as a reason? again, it may be worth considering whether there is anything there that you need to be aware of - for instance, do you come across as more aggressive than you intend? 

Undervalued

SChitmehard said:

My work has a regulatory body so have to be honest about my employment history and new employers can fire you for lying about this anyway so no point doing something like that.

A new employer can fire you for any reason that doesn't amount to unlawful discrimination, or indeed absolutely no reason at all.

You refer to a "regulatory body", can they not offer any guidance as to exactly what is (or isn't) required? In some regulated fields a former employer is legally obliged to provide a reference if requested. If they do then they have a obligation to both parties to be honest and not deliberately misleading.

Strictly speaking, making any false statement in an attempt to secure employment can constitute fraud. Prosecutions for this are rare but can occasionally happen in more extreme cases.

Regardless, it is important to stick to the truth and generally best no to "rubbish" your past employer even if you feel it is justified.

Savvy_Sue

TBagpuss said:

As others have said, if asked, you say that it didn't work out and unfortunately the job turned out to be different to the way it was advertised / presented. That isn't a lie - if they ask directly whether you were dismissed then of course you say yes, and can raise that you were dismissed after raising concerns about lack of raining. 

I'd also practise what you'd want to say and how you'd want to say it out loud. I'm a great believer in this: once you've heard yourself saying "the job turned out to be different to the way it was advertised / presented" a few times in a quite neutral way, the less likely it is that you'll use the emotive language up thread ....

getmore4less

I didn't have an issue with the job/work, just that they lied to me about what I would be doing 

If you weren't doing what you thought you were employed to do that sounds like an issue with the job.

You will need to be a lot clearer in your own mind why this was not working.

If the new jobs you are looking at are the "same" then why will what you end up doing not be the same again.

If you really ended up doing something different that's a clear it was not working because I want to be doing what you want me to do.

Regulated sector often a lot smaller than people think and what's the chances you are a known quantity in the industry anyway.


There is also the higher level ex public sector can't hack it in the real world bias.