Sanctioned by Work-coach?

tacpot12

tomtom256 said:

Two sides to every story, push comes to shove, you need to be reporting the employer if they offered below minimum wage. The Jobcentre can't do anything about that, but they should have asked the reason you turned the job down and if there was anything you wanted to add to the mandatory reconsideration for the DM's to take into account.

If the Jobcentre can't do anything about it, then the DWP needs a kick up the backside. At the very least, there should be a duty to report any suspicions to HMRC. 

tacpot12

Jimjim78 said:

From past experience I've found that high percentage of Care Sector employers only recruit apprentices. They can legally get away with paying over 19's £4.30 per hour for the first year of an apprenticeship. The attitude of these companies seems to be why pay £8.91 per hour when they don't have too.

You wouldn't mind this so much if the apprenctiship was a good one, with well-thought out training and support, but companies that are just doing it to save money have no interest in developing their staff.

elsien

MoodyMand45 said:

tacpot12 said:

When you asked for the Mandatory Reconsideration, did you make it clear that the job offer was for less than the national minium wage and that this the reason you refused it? 

I would suggest that you find a job yourself that is not zero hours. UC will pay you more when you have worked less, so, in theory, a zero-hours contract should not be a problem - your UC will be calculated based on what you earned the preceeding assessment period. 

But for UC to know what you are being paid, the employer has to make tax and NI payments to HMRC, and I'm inclined to think that this employer may not be paying tax and NI correctly if they are not paying the National Minimum Wage.

If you lose the MR, call your local Citizens Advice for some support. 

Unfortunately i was told that i am not allowed to tell them anything until the Mandatory Consideration decision comes back, i have have not yet had the chance to speak to a human about this which is frustrating, i thought i would have a form to fill in a form but this has not happened either. I have a feeling my work coach might be absent using covid as an excuse knowing something is not right about £5 an hour job offer!
I will contact citizens advice next!

Told by who?

I do think it’s pretty unlikely that your work coach would pretend to have Covid to avoid an issue that would still be there when they return in 2 weeks time. 

NedS

poppy12345 said:

MoodyMand45 said:

tacpot12 said:

When you asked for the Mandatory Reconsideration, did you make it clear that the job offer was for less than the national minium wage and that this the reason you refused it? 

I would suggest that you find a job yourself that is not zero hours. UC will pay you more when you have worked less, so, in theory, a zero-hours contract should not be a problem - your UC will be calculated based on what you earned the preceeding assessment period. 

But for UC to know what you are being paid, the employer has to make tax and NI payments to HMRC, and I'm inclined to think that this employer may not be paying tax and NI correctly if they are not paying the National Minimum Wage.

If you lose the MR, call your local Citizens Advice for some support. 

Unfortunately i was told that i am not allowed to tell them anything until the Mandatory Consideration decision comes back

I don't understand this. The whole point of the MR process is that you fully explain the reasons why you're challenging the decision.

Agreed. I would recommend you put your full account of the situation in writing on your journal ASAP. State very clearly what was offered and why you refused the job. The decision maker who looks at the Mandatory Reconsideration cannot ignore that evidence once it is there in writing.

Grumpy_chap

MoodyMand45 said:

the interview was going well until he told me i would be working a zero hours contract for £5 per hour.
I said to him i thought i would be getting minimum wage but his tone then changed and he made it clear to me if i refuse this he will tell the work coach and i will be sanctioned, when i walked out to contact my work coach he called me a lazy, fat English and other things i can't mention.

I could not wait to contact the work-coach and tell her about the £5 per hour 

This is absolutely shocking from the potential employer.

I would work on the assumption that the Work Coach is unaware that minimum wage is not being adhered to.

In hindsight, probably the best thing would be to act keen and work to get the job offer in writing - is that something you can still do? 
You can then report to the Work Coach that the interview went well and you are positive about the job being offered and excited to wait to receive a Contract of Employment plus start date.  That keeps you totally on side with the Work Coach.
If you are never offered the job, then you did not decline and cannot be sanctioned.
If you are offered the job at below minimum wage, you can then report that and have (IMO) good grounds for refusing the job.

All the above is idealistic, though.  If I'd been in that interview and spoken to like that, I'd have walked out in disgust and not with the rational head on that wrote the paragraph above.

TELLIT01

MoodyMand45 said:

This work-coach told me she can find me a job very quickly if i agree to dive into the Care sector if i'm interested and i agreed to this.
In a matter of two weeks she told me she has got me an interview with a Care Business owner who will offer me work and take me on,

This is what would worry me.  A potential employer who says they will take on anybody, prior to interview, and apparently irrespective of their suitability.  I don't know if companies are paid anything by DWP for taking on people, but something looks very wrong here particularly when added to the £5 per hour pay rate.

Grumpy_chap

TELLIT01 said:

MoodyMand45 said:

This work-coach told me she can find me a job very quickly if i agree to dive into the Care sector if i'm interested and i agreed to this.
In a matter of two weeks she told me she has got me an interview with a Care Business owner who will offer me work and take me on,

This is what would worry me.  A potential employer who says they will take on anybody, prior to interview, and apparently irrespective of their suitability.  I don't know if companies are paid anything by DWP for taking on people, but something looks very wrong here particularly when added to the £5 per hour pay rate.

Maybe the Work Coach is saying they have worked really hard, developed a relationship with the employer and undertaken an assessment of the OP skills and character to assess that match with the employer, taking a very professional approach the same as a private Recruitment Agency would say they work.  With only the best candidates going forwards, the second round interview with the employer Line Manager can become something of a formality.

That could be how it is. 
I am not saying that is how it is in this case. 
It's likely not how it is given what the OP has said.  
That is likely how it will be spun by the Work Coach if the OP raises a concern.

For the above reason, the OP needs to be careful of reporting anything following a verbal communication but if the OP can get the written offer of the job outside min wage, the ability to take action is far stronger.

TheShape

tacpot12 said:

When you asked for the Mandatory Reconsideration, did you make it clear that the job offer was for less than the national minium wage and that this the reason you refused it? 

poppy12345 said:

MoodyMand45 said:

tacpot12 said:

When you asked for the Mandatory Reconsideration, did you make it clear that the job offer was for less than the national minium wage and that this the reason you refused it? 

Unfortunately i was told that i am not allowed to tell them anything until the Mandatory Consideration decision comes back

I don't understand this. The whole point of the MR process is that you fully explain the reasons why you're challenging the decision.

Very little of this makes any sense.

A Work Coach shouldn't be imposing sanctions.

The claimant's reasons for not accepting the job shouldn't be being gathered for the Mandatory Reconsideration.  The claimant should have been given the opportunity to give their reasons before the initial referral to a Decision Maker who should make a decision based on the evidence presented.  If a Mandatory Consideration is requested the claimant should then be able to explain why it's being requested and given the opportunity to submit any other evidence they believe relevant.

Was the OP given the opportunity to explain why they refused the offer of employment before a referral was made?  The Decision Maker should have been checking that the OP was given this opportunity before any decision was made.

sammyjammy

TheShape said:

tacpot12 said:

When you asked for the Mandatory Reconsideration, did you make it clear that the job offer was for less than the national minium wage and that this the reason you refused it? 

poppy12345 said:

MoodyMand45 said:

tacpot12 said:

When you asked for the Mandatory Reconsideration, did you make it clear that the job offer was for less than the national minium wage and that this the reason you refused it? 

Unfortunately i was told that i am not allowed to tell them anything until the Mandatory Consideration decision comes back

I don't understand this. The whole point of the MR process is that you fully explain the reasons why you're challenging the decision.

Very little of this makes any sense.

A Work Coach shouldn't be imposing sanctions.

The claimant's reasons for not accepting the job shouldn't be being gathered for the Mandatory Reconsideration.  The claimant should have been given the opportunity to give their reasons before the initial referral to a Decision Maker who should make a decision based on the evidence presented.  If a Mandatory Consideration is requested the claimant should then be able to explain why it's being requested and given the opportunity to submit any other evidence they believe relevant.

Was the OP given the opportunity to explain why they refused the offer of employment before a referral was made?  The Decision Maker should have been checking that the OP was given this opportunity before any decision was made.

The work coach hasn't imposed a sanction they will have made a referral to a decision maker, it's not their job to say what is reasonable in law or not.

powerful_Rogue

Spender£ said:

I wanted to do a £2 an hour fruit picking job when i was on the dole and my work coach said she would report me if i dared to even apply for it because it is cash in the hand illegal.
This work coach of yours needs to be held accountable for setting up this interview for cash in the hand work, go to a local councilor or MP, I'm sure they would take a dim view of this sort of conduct.
I would attend a local Jobcentre and make your views known and demand to see the manager, don't stay silent!

Cash in hand work isn't illegal.