Help with smoke/heat alarms - hardwired/battery or a combination of both

Risteard

BUFF said:

Nest say that they can't function solely as a heat detector (you would have thought that it wouldn't be too hard to isolate 1 part of the detector seeing as they are apparently different sensors, perhaps even with a software update) https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Protect/Updates-on-Nest-Protect-and-pending-Scottish-legislation-changes/m-p/25058#M842 & that they have no plans to produce one despite having been asked/warned for 2 years.

Additionally, as I have previously pointed out, the battery Nests also fail to meet the Scottish legislation by having removable batteries.

I asked them many more than two years ago about this. There answer back then was also that there were no plans to address the non-compliant nature of these detectors.

Risteard

Doozergirl said:

They exceed the minimum standard is the problem, because they don't *only* provide heat detection in a kitchen, but smoke and CO as well.  

That is a clear breach of the minimum standards - not something which exceeds them at all. It is very obvious that you neither understand Fire Detection and Alarm Systems nor the requirements of the relevant British Standards.

Dorian1958

Thank you everyone.   This thread is not about the merits or otherwise of Nest.  It was established in my second post that Nest is non compliant, as it does not have a standalone heat detector for the kitchen, therefore is unsuitable for my needs.  I will report back when Aico respond about whether I can mix my existing hardwired system (they have removable back up batteries, does that make them non compliant?) with new sealed battery smoke alarm and a heat alarm for the kitchen.

Doozergirl

Risteard said:

Doozergirl said:

They exceed the minimum standard is the problem, because they don't *only* provide heat detection in a kitchen, but smoke and CO as well.  

That is a clear breach of the minimum standards - not something which exceeds them at all. It is very obvious that you neither understand Fire Detection and Alarm Systems nor the requirements of the relevant British Standards.

I quite obviously understood the OPs position and that of the Scottish authorities back at the beginning of the thread when they explained it.  The OP clearly knows they can't have it, they won't be buying it.  My opinion that it's a shame because of my own practical experience of living with it every day and it being brilliant isn't something you get to change my mind about.    I'm not trying to convince you of what the BS standard is, nor are you trying to convince me.   There is nuance that you don't seem to be picking up on.  

I've said enough.   I hope the OP finds something that helps them feel safe and meets requirement.  

Risteard

Dorian1958 said:

Thank you everyone.   This thread is not about the merits or otherwise of Nest.  It was established in my second post that Nest is non compliant, as it does not have a standalone heat detector for the kitchen, therefore is unsuitable for my needs.  I will report back when Aico respond about whether I can mix my existing hardwired system (they have removable back up batteries, does that make them non compliant?) with new sealed battery smoke alarm and a heat alarm for the kitchen.

Grade D1 has a non-replaceable tamperproof lithium backup battery. Grade D2 has a replaceable backup battery. Grade D1 is required in rented premises. These are all mains powered primarily with the battery as a backup. Battery-only is Grade F off the top of my head, and not generally permitted by the British Standard. (I believe the Scottish Government have stated that they are acceptable where they are for the whole life of the unit.) If the battery-only ones are RadioLINK or SmartLINK compatible then you should be able to link them to the others with a base or module.

BUFF

Risteard said:

. Battery-only is Grade F off the top of my head, and not generally permitted by the British Standard. (I believe the Scottish Government have stated that they are acceptable where they are for the whole life of the unit.) If the battery-only ones are RadioLINK or SmartLINK compatible then you should be able to link them to the others with a base or module.

Well remembered. 
"Grade F systems (battery-only powered alarms) can be considered for some existing, owner-occupied dwellings, but only where there is reasonable certainty that batteries will be replaced when needed. A preferable option would be to use an alarm with a sealed-in battery designed to last for the life of the alarm. Such alarms are commonplace and easily available in both retail and trade outlets."
https://www.fireangel.co.uk/bs-5839-6-2013-building-regulations/
If you want the full BSI https://assets.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/CTAR00000036_BS 5839-6_ 2013. Fire detection and fire alarm systems for buildings - Code of practice for the design, installation, commissioning and maintenance of fire detection and fire alarm.pdf
The Scottish regs. mandate whole life, non-removeable batteries (& interlinked) if battery only alarms are used.

Dorian1958

I've had an email back from Aico.  They say I would have to replace each whole unit (including the base plate) of my existing hard wired system which could then be paired with separate standalone sealed battery alarms.  I had hoped i could just whack on a new RF alarm on the existing base plate.  Consulted with an electrician and the conclusion I have reached is to simply replace the whole of my existing hard wired system with stand alone sealed  battery units.  I  don't like the idea of a mix and match solution which will depend upon an electrician for ongoing maintenance  (and initial installation). This is something I can do myself and is therefore the most cost effective.   (I'll also just leave my existing hard wired alarms in place until they expire.)  Thank you all contributors.