parcel left on doorstep - gone missing but cant get refund for it

Manxman_in_exile

deanos said:

i don’t think this has been mentioned, but when you divert a parcel don’t you have to agree to dpd terms and conditions , won’t they come into play as you have agreed to them ?

My immediate* reaction to that would be that I don't see what difference it makes?

s29(2)(b) specifically deals with the situation where a consumer has identified somebody else to take possession of the goods, and in that case the trader still remains responsible for the goods until they are delivered into the physical possession of that person.

No T&Cs from DPD can override* what the Act says so whether the OP has agreed to them or not is irrelevant.  Game remain liable for the goods until delivered into the physical possession of either the consumer or a person identified by the consumer.

And in any case, the consumer has no contract* with DPD so whatever their T&Cs say is irrelevant.

* I say "immediate" reaction because I suppose you might(?) have a point.  I think you are assuming that the OP has been in direct contact with DPD to identify the neighbour, but I'm assuming that the OP has identified the neighbour to Game with the intention of that being passed on to whichever courier Game chooses.  eg Game ask as part of the ordering process whether there are any alternative delivery arrangements.

But either way, I don't think it matters and I think the console - or whatever it is - remains at Game's risk until properly delivered to the OP.

Manxman_in_exile

tracytown said:

If you haven't already call your bank and say it's a fraud payment as the item was not delivered to you and see what they say. These days debit cards have similar security to credit cards do they not?

Bank > Game > DPD

tracytown said:

If you need to go to small claims court, perhaps look at what all the "loop hole" lawyers basically appear to do:

1. Can Game prove you bought the item? - If you bought...

[Rest of post edited for brevity... ]

...  I don't know if this is helpful, sorry probably not.  I think these companies would not show up to small claims court anyway.

@peculiarpetulia -  I would strongly advise you (as others have already done) to ignore the above two posts, and on no account follow their "advice".

The only reliable bit I have highlighted in bold...    

peculiarpetulia

i wouldnt dream of saying i never ordered the item - i did order it and obviously they know i ordered it anyway as ive been in communication with them - ive sent the email from advise before using the section highlighted and saying the door was closed so that proves it wasnt handed into my hands.

ill update once ive received a reply

thanks everyone

tracytown

RogerBareford said:

tracytown said:

If you need to go to small claims court, perhaps look at what all the "loop hole" lawyers basically appear to do:

1. Can Game prove you bought the item? - If you bought it online with your card, how can they prove that was physically you? It could have been stolen. If they can't show you bought it, then how can they prove it was delivered to you.

2. Can DPD prove they delivered the parcel?
- If they took a photo, does the photo include:
a. The date physically shown in the photo
b. Date can be altered in camera settings so that is not a fact with a date stamp
c. Show your house with full address - again if it only shows the door it is not legally proof of the address. It could be somewhere similar. I know the parcel people like to photo our front door but legally this shows a photo of a door and that is not going to be evidence they can use I don't think.

3. Can DPD prove the parcel is the exact parcel you ordered? 
a. If they took a photo does it include:
- The exact same number corresponding to your order in GAME visible in photo
- Your name and address visible in the photo

You could go as far to say since you have no opportunity to check the contents of the parcel, it could have been anything in the parcel. Can Game prove what was in the contents of the parcel. 

The delivery driver basically could have left it anywhere. If there is a photo of your door, it is near on impossible for them to prove that is your address without your full address somehow visible with a street sign.

I don't know if this is helpful, sorry probably not. I think these companies would not show up to small claims court anyway.

Just focusing on the first point of this; do you really think it would be a good idea for the OP to claim they never ordered the parcel?

They have been in contact with both Game and DPD chasing up this parcel saying they havn't got it so to then claim they never ordered it would just make them look ridiculous with such an obvious lie.

Would you actually go to court and claim this or are you just trying to get someone else to do it because you think it would be amusing?

No, but I was looking at how legally it would work, apologies if it was wrong. No it was not trying to be amusing. It was a list of "ideas" perhaps some a little silly and badly worded. I have deleted the post now. At least several people all jumped on it and said every single part was wrong, which seems a little strange, but ok.

tracytown

porkisnotmeat said:

Loophole lawyers typically operate in criminal cases where the burden of proof is much higher.

If you try try any if those in an small claims track case you'll just look like a twit.

It's pretty simple, Game have a legal obligation to delivery the item to you (although some of us believe it being another house member would be acceptable but not important here) and your door is not you or another person residing at the address.

So on the balance of probabilities is it likely it was left outside and then nicked?  Probably .  Case closed.

Yes perhaps I was a bit crazy just listing some ideas to try and help which certainly backfired with several replies at my expense. 

tracytown

theonlywayisup said:

tracytown said:

If you haven't already call your bank and say it's a fraud payment as the item was not delivered to you and see what they say. These days debit cards have similar security to credit cards do they not?

Bank > Game > DPD

It is not fraud.

tracytown said:

If you need to go to small claims court, perhaps look at what all the "loop hole" lawyers basically appear to do:

1. Can Game prove you bought the item? - If you bought it online with your card, how can they prove that was physically you? It could have been stolen. If they can't show you bought it, then how can they prove it was delivered to you.

2. Can DPD prove they delivered the parcel?
- If they took a photo, does the photo include:
a. The date physically shown in the photo
b. Date can be altered in camera settings so that is not a fact with a date stamp
c. Show your house with full address - again if it only shows the door it is not legally proof of the address. It could be somewhere similar. I know the parcel people like to photo our front door but legally this shows a photo of a door and that is not going to be evidence they can use I don't think.

3. Can DPD prove the parcel is the exact parcel you ordered? 
a. If they took a photo does it include:
- The exact same number corresponding to your order in GAME visible in photo
- Your name and address visible in the photo

You could go as far to say since you have no opportunity to check the contents of the parcel, it could have been anything in the parcel. Can Game prove what was in the contents of the parcel. 

The delivery driver basically could have left it anywhere. If there is a photo of your door, it is near on impossible for them to prove that is your address without your full address somehow visible with a street sign.

I don't know if this is helpful, sorry probably not. I think these companies would not show up to small claims court anyway.

There is so much that is wrong in your posts and I am unsure if it is naivety or something else. 

Sorry it was a list of ideas trying to help, perhaps I was wrong yes. I realise now a lot of people think I meant say it was a scammer stealing your card. What I meant was call the bank and say its fraud, as in, they took my money and did not deliver. I have since looked up the definition of fraud and it seems that would not be it exactly. Although what GAME have done would I guess be nothing? Although they have taken money, used a 3rd party and not delivered the item. I would say that is deceitful but again, not the point. I guess best not to use fraud in this situation.

I still think some of my points are valid, such as call the bank and tell them what happened to get some advice at least.

tracytown

Ergates said:

tracytown said:

If you haven't already call your bank and say it's a fraud payment as the item was not delivered to you and see what they say. These days debit cards have similar security to credit cards do they not?

Bank > Game > DPD

Don't do this - raising a false fraud claim is, in itself, fraud.  This is *not* fraud, it is a misdelivery.

Yes I didn't mean take it word for word exactly how I wrote it on a forum, and it is debatable if its fraud and it is unlikely if the person you call will just go "ok" and that is the end of the call? I meant say it's fraud if they have not delivered the item and taken the money and discuss it with the person on the phone and see what they say? If you purchase something and never get what you paid for that could be classed as fraud. There isn't only one type of fraud but surely it is worth asking the bank on the phone given you paid for an item and did not receive anything. 

tracytown

Ergates said:

tracytown said:

If you haven't already call your bank and say it's a fraud payment as the item was not delivered to you and see what they say. These days debit cards have similar security to credit cards do they not?

Bank > Game > DPD

Don't do this - raising a false fraud claim is, in itself, fraud.  This is *not* fraud, it is a misdelivery.

As per other posts I did not mean it how you think. I meant say its a fraud payment because you paid for it and it was not delivered, then see what the bank say? I realise now it looks as if I meant say some scammer has stolen your details. Not what I meant.

My definition of fraud I guess is wrong, although in this case i don't know what GAME would be guilty of, it is a deceitful act given they have taken the money and know the customer has not received the item, but I guess not.

tracytown

Manxman_in_exile said:

tracytown said:

If you haven't already call your bank and say it's a fraud payment as the item was not delivered to you and see what they say. These days debit cards have similar security to credit cards do they not?

Bank > Game > DPD

tracytown said:

If you need to go to small claims court, perhaps look at what all the "loop hole" lawyers basically appear to do:

1. Can Game prove you bought the item? - If you bought...

[Rest of post edited for brevity... ]

...  I don't know if this is helpful, sorry probably not.  I think these companies would not show up to small claims court anyway.

@peculiarpetulia -  I would strongly advise you (as others have already done) to ignore the above two posts, and on no account follow their "advice".

The only reliable bit I have highlighted in bold...    

Yes sorry I wrote a lot of ideas to try and help, I don't think every single element was completely wrong as you say, but at the very least you enjoyed your post and feeling of superiority so that is something to come out of it. 

I meant a fraud payment in that you paid and received nothing. I have looked up the definition of "fraud" and it seems I was wrong and that would not cover it. Although GAME has taken money and not delivered the item to the customer, so I would have thought that was deceitful etc. Anyway, I deleted the post as obviously it has been misconstrued as my definition of fraud is wrong. You assumed I meant a fraud scammer had stolen your card, which is not what I meant and I didn't say that. I meant fraud as in you paid and got nothing. It seems that is wrong and not fraud though. So I have apologised for that and deleted the post.

I still think it is worth calling your bank to discuss what has happened (better worded?) and they can offer some advice at the very least.

tracytown

peculiarpetulia said:

i wouldnt dream of saying i never ordered the item - i did order it and obviously they know i ordered it anyway as ive been in communication with them - ive sent the email from advise before using the section highlighted and saying the door was closed so that proves it wasnt handed into my hands.

ill update once ive received a reply

thanks everyone

I have deleted the post to avoid further confusion, but at no point did I say tell them you didn't order the item. That is not what I meant and I did not actually write that. I said "Call and say it's fraud" but I meant fraud as in you paid for an item and not received it. I realise now some others thought I meant say its an online scammer stealing your details. Sincere apologies I really did not mean that. I meant you paid and got nothing, which I thought would also be fraud, but looking at the full meaning of the term "fraud" I guess it is not and wouldn't cover what happened. I'm not sure what GAME have done since they have essentially taken money and you don't have the item. I thought that would be fraud, but I guess not. Apologies.

I still think it is worth telling your bank what has happened - which is what I meant to say in that sentence. Apologies again. I would never recommend what people assumed. It was just badly written and apologies for that. 

*Before some other people quote me and mention I put "can they prove who ordered the item" yes I made a mistake with those points, they were just ideas for points to bring up legally, they were wrong. I am sorry about that and have deleted the post to avoid further issues. I was just trying to help and no I didn't mean "lie" about the payment, I meant you paid and got nothing so that is fraud.