parcel left on doorstep - gone missing but cant get refund for it

Ergates

Manxman_in_exile said:

Ergates said:

Yes - most couriers will want to take a photo next to a pair legs (human legs) to show that somebody was there to receive the parcel.  They generally don't want to provide evidence they just left it unattended.

Unless you're the short orange one on the left.

Just a couple of months ago my wife had a pair of jeans delivered on behalf of M&S.  We were both in at the time of delivery and weren't aware of it until my wife got a message confirming delivery.  We couldn't find them until we opened our food waste caddy the following day(!).

As the package sealing was not 100% waterproof (or odour proof... ) they were returned.

At the moment nothing surprises me about the bonkers locations of deliveries.

That's... almost impressively bad.

Manxman_in_exile

Yeah.  We were going to complain to M&S but it's very difficult, isn't it?

These delivery guys are paid absolute peanuts and they run from pillar to post trying to meet whatever that day's delivery target is, and they must dread not meeting that target.  We decided it wasn't worth getting the guy into trouble.

But then that means that he might also do the same - or worse - to another customer...

It's very difficult - but it's the price we pay for the apparent "convenience" of buying everything off the internet.  (It's also the price M&S pay in a sense as my wife decided she wouldn't use them again if they cut corners with their couriers.  I'll see how long that lasts).

Totally different but a man from ParcelForce knocked on our door last week and asked if we would accept a "couple of packages" for our next-door neighbour.  Ok, not a problem.

He then went to his van and struggled back with a large heavy package about 5 feet long and 1 foot by 1 foot.  "The second one's larger and a more awkward size" he said "it's also heavier... "

So we ended up babysitting two large packages for several hours blocking our hallway.  (They were too heavy, large and awkward to move anywhere else and it was an age before our neighbours returned home!).  I wanted to leave them outside our front door but my wife insisted on dragging them into our house in case somebody stole them.  The only person who could have stolen them was Eddie Hall!

Next time I'll ask to see the packages first...

peculiarpetulia

Manxman_in_exile said:

peculiarpetulia said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

I would argue that that photograph* is clear evidence that DPD did NOT deliver it into your physical possession as required by s29 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015:  Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)

29  Passing of risk

(1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.

(2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.

(3)Subsection (2) does not apply if the goods are delivered to a carrier who—

(a)is commissioned by the consumer to deliver the goods, and

(b)is not a carrier the trader named as an option for the consumer.

(4)In that case the goods are at the consumer’s risk on and after delivery to the carrier.

(5)Subsection (4) does not affect any liability of the carrier to the consumer in respect of the goods.

(6)See section 2(5) and (6) for the application of this section where goods are sold at public auction

OP - so long as DPD either were chosen by Game, or were chosen by you from a list of couriers provided by Game, then the goods remained at Game's risk until delivered into your physical possession and they are still responsible for them.

email them quoting and linking to the above legislation and TELL them that the law says you are entitled to a refund or a replacement.

If they refuse and you decide it's worth suing then you have to follow certain steps first.

Basically you have to send them a formal letter called a "Letter before claim" or a "Letter before action" explaining what the problem is and that they are in beach of s29 of the legislation I linked to above.  You also set out what remedy you want from them (eg refund or replacement).

Then you give them a certain time limit (might be a minimum of 14 days but I'm not sure about that?) and if they haven't complied by then you warn them that you will issue a court claim against them, and that you will also be claiming any costs associated with making that claim.  

Then you wait and see if that budges them.  If it doesn't, you sue them.  (I'm afraid I'm not sure what the fee is for making a claim, but once you've paid it, you include it in any claim you make against Game).

*DPD should have at least taken a photo of the parcel on the doorstep with the door open and preferably your legs beside it.

thank you ever so much for your help - i dont suppose you can help me out with the wording on the letter - i have a fuzzy mind atm with so much going on and work being so demanding atm (night shifts really are a killer and so busy with covid) - id really appreciate your help... thanks ever so much

You don't need a letter before claim at this stage.

Just email Game and tell them that under s29(2)(a) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (give them this link - Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) ) they remained liable for the console until it was delivered into your "physical possession".  The photograph taken by DPD shows a parcel in front of a closed door.  It is not evidence that Game have fulfilled their obligation to you under the legislation to deliver it into your "physical possession", and you further confirm that the console was never delivered to you.  Obviously anyone could have taken it from your doorstep.  (Show them the other photo of how open your doorstep was).  Tell them you want a full refund or a replacement console.

If they try to tell you to take it up with DPD, you tell them it's their problem, not DPD's.

If they do not comply after you have told them the above then you need to decide if you are willing to sue them.  If you are you send them a letter before claim.  (But I suspect they don't understand the law and that once you have pointed it out and sent them the link I give above that they will pay up).

You can find templates anywhere like the one from citizens advice linked to by @ParkingMad. 

Manxman_in_exile said:

peculiarpetulia said:

Manxman_in_exile said

I would argue that that photograph* is clear evidence that DPD did NOT deliver it into your physical possession as required by s29 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015:  Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)

29  Passing of risk

(1)A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.

(2)The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.

(3)Subsection (2) does not apply if the goods are delivered to a carrier who—

(a)is commissioned by the consumer to deliver the goods, and

(b)is not a carrier the trader named as an option for the consumer.

(4)In that case the goods are at the consumer’s risk on and after delivery to the carrier.

(5)Subsection (4) does not affect any liability of the carrier to the consumer in respect of the goods.

(6)See section 2(5) and (6) for the application of this section where goods are sold at public auction

OP - so long as DPD either were chosen by Game, or were chosen by you from a list of couriers provided by Game, then the goods remained at Game's risk until delivered into your physical possession and they are still responsible for them.

email them quoting and linking to the above legislation and TELL them that the law says you are entitled to a refund or a replacement.

If they refuse and you decide it's worth suing then you have to follow certain steps first.

Basically you have to send them a formal letter called a "Letter before claim" or a "Letter before action" explaining what the problem is and that they are in beach of s29 of the legislation I linked to above.  You also set out what remedy you want from them (eg refund or replacement).

Then you give them a certain time limit (might be a minimum of 14 days but I'm not sure about that?) and if they haven't complied by then you warn them that you will issue a court claim against them, and that you will also be claiming any costs associated with making that claim.  

Then you wait and see if that budges them.  If it doesn't, you sue them.  (I'm afraid I'm not sure what the fee is for making a claim, but once you've paid it, you include it in any claim you make against Game).

*DPD should have at least taken a photo of the parcel on the doorstep with the door open and preferably your legs beside it.

thank you ever so much for your help - i dont suppose you can help me out with the wording on the letter - i have a fuzzy mind atm with so much going on and work being so demanding atm (night shifts really are a killer and so busy with covid) - id really appreciate your help... thanks ever so much

You don't need a letter before claim at this stage.

Just email Game and tell them that under s29(2)(a) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (give them this link - Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) ) they remained liable for the console until it was delivered into your "physical possession".  The photograph taken by DPD shows a parcel in front of a closed door.  It is not evidence that Game have fulfilled their obligation to you under the legislation to deliver it into your "physical possession", and you further confirm that the console was never delivered to you.  Obviously anyone could have taken it from your doorstep.  (Show them the other photo of how open your doorstep was).  Tell them you want a full refund or a replacement console.

If they try to tell you to take it up with DPD, you tell them it's their problem, not DPD's.

If they do not comply after you have told them the above then you need to decide if you are willing to sue them.  If you are you send them a letter before claim.  (But I suspect they don't understand the law and that once you have pointed it out and sent them the link I give above that they will pay up).

You can find templates anywhere like the one from citizens advice linked to by @ParkingMad. 

thanks - ill follow this advice for now..... cheers 

deanos

i don’t think this has been mentioned, but when you divert a parcel don’t you have to agree to dpd terms and conditions , won’t they come into play as you have agreed to them ?

tracytown

If you haven't already call your bank and say it's a fraud payment as the item was not delivered to you and see what they say. These days debit cards have similar security to credit cards do they not?

Bank > Game > DPD

porkisnotmeat

Loophole lawyers typically operate in criminal cases where the burden of proof is much higher.

If you try try any if those in an small claims track case you'll just look like a twit.

It's pretty simple, Game have a legal obligation to delivery the item to you (although some of us believe it being another house member would be acceptable but not important here) and your door is not you or another person residing at the address.

So on the balance of probabilities is it likely it was left outside and then nicked?  Probably .  Case closed.

theonlywayisup

tracytown said:

If you haven't already call your bank and say it's a fraud payment as the item was not delivered to you and see what they say. These days debit cards have similar security to credit cards do they not?

Bank > Game > DPD

It is not fraud.

tracytown said:

If you need to go to small claims court, perhaps look at what all the "loop hole" lawyers basically appear to do:

1. Can Game prove you bought the item? - If you bought it online with your card, how can they prove that was physically you? It could have been stolen. If they can't show you bought it, then how can they prove it was delivered to you.

2. Can DPD prove they delivered the parcel?
- If they took a photo, does the photo include:
a. The date physically shown in the photo
b. Date can be altered in camera settings so that is not a fact with a date stamp
c. Show your house with full address - again if it only shows the door it is not legally proof of the address. It could be somewhere similar. I know the parcel people like to photo our front door but legally this shows a photo of a door and that is not going to be evidence they can use I don't think.

3. Can DPD prove the parcel is the exact parcel you ordered? 
a. If they took a photo does it include:
- The exact same number corresponding to your order in GAME visible in photo
- Your name and address visible in the photo

You could go as far to say since you have no opportunity to check the contents of the parcel, it could have been anything in the parcel. Can Game prove what was in the contents of the parcel. 

The delivery driver basically could have left it anywhere. If there is a photo of your door, it is near on impossible for them to prove that is your address without your full address somehow visible with a street sign.

I don't know if this is helpful, sorry probably not. I think these companies would not show up to small claims court anyway.

There is so much that is wrong in your posts and I am unsure if it is naivety or something else. 

Ergates

tracytown said:

If you haven't already call your bank and say it's a fraud payment as the item was not delivered to you and see what they say. These days debit cards have similar security to credit cards do they not?

Bank > Game > DPD

Don't do this - raising a false fraud claim is, in itself, fraud.  This is *not* fraud, it is a misdelivery.

RogerBareford

tracytown said:

If you need to go to small claims court, perhaps look at what all the "loop hole" lawyers basically appear to do:

1. Can Game prove you bought the item? - If you bought it online with your card, how can they prove that was physically you? It could have been stolen. If they can't show you bought it, then how can they prove it was delivered to you.

2. Can DPD prove they delivered the parcel?
- If they took a photo, does the photo include:
a. The date physically shown in the photo
b. Date can be altered in camera settings so that is not a fact with a date stamp
c. Show your house with full address - again if it only shows the door it is not legally proof of the address. It could be somewhere similar. I know the parcel people like to photo our front door but legally this shows a photo of a door and that is not going to be evidence they can use I don't think.

3. Can DPD prove the parcel is the exact parcel you ordered? 
a. If they took a photo does it include:
- The exact same number corresponding to your order in GAME visible in photo
- Your name and address visible in the photo

You could go as far to say since you have no opportunity to check the contents of the parcel, it could have been anything in the parcel. Can Game prove what was in the contents of the parcel. 

The delivery driver basically could have left it anywhere. If there is a photo of your door, it is near on impossible for them to prove that is your address without your full address somehow visible with a street sign.

I don't know if this is helpful, sorry probably not. I think these companies would not show up to small claims court anyway.

Just focusing on the first point of this; do you really think it would be a good idea for the OP to claim they never ordered the parcel?

They have been in contact with both Game and DPD chasing up this parcel saying they havn't got it so to then claim they never ordered it would just make them look ridiculous with such an obvious lie.

Would you actually go to court and claim this or are you just trying to get someone else to do it because you think it would be amusing?

born_again

tracytown said:

If you haven't already call your bank and say it's a fraud payment as the item was not delivered to you and see what they say. These days debit cards have similar security to credit cards do they not?

Bank > Game > DPD

It's not fraud as the OP bought the item.
Fraud is where a unknown 3rd party uses your card...

The only bank option is a chargeback for non receipt. But as per previous posts. All retailer need is proof of delivery & they will have a photo from DPD to prove this. So odds on it will fail.

As has been pointed out OP needs to go back to Game on this as per @Ma@Manxman_in_exile1 February at 6:17PM