It's getting tough out there. Feeling the pinch?

Brambling

I brought a two bedroom flat in 1990 for £62500 and not many years later the bottom fell out of the housing market by 1996 it was valued at £47000. I was able to wait it out, and sold it for £147000 in 2005 but had extended the leasehold. I was lucky I knew people who handed back keys or were stuck in situations with tens of thousands in negative equity.  When we brought you could still get 100% mortgages if you needed to but it was I think 3 x salary for joint or 3.5 x single salary (if I remember correctly).  I brought a washing machine new everything else was second hand mainly family castoff's which is the advantage of a big family.  

Also in those days I was able to get a mortgage allowance from work after working there three years and we got a town allowance because we were in the SE 

Blackcats

Essex Hebridean thank you for your post earlier today.  It really resonated with me and is an important point to remember.  I'm fortunate that I can now afford what I consider to be a good standard of living.  After years of wasting money and racking up debt, I'm now debt free and finally being sensible and choosing to cut back on certain things.  But this is my choice because I want to use my money differently now.
I think MSErs are a great mix of supportive folk and we can all learn from each other whilst being thoughtful of others who are here whether from necessity or choice.  

euronorris

jennystarpepper said:

euronorris said:

jennystarpepper said:

euronorris said:

Yes, it is harder for FTB now. The income to house price ratio is much higher. In 1996, this ratio was 3. By 2020, it was closer to 7. This ratio is much higher in London. House prices have risen at much higher rates than the average income, sadly, and having other things available at a cheaper rate is no longer sufficient to plug the gap (it was for a while).

I did say ... (excluding London / or similar areas).  1996 is being quoted, changes happen every year, good and bad. My comments are not just about cheaper things.  

Yes, and the ratios I quoted are the UK averages. The London ratios show a much greater gap between the average salary and the average house price. The facts are that buying a property is a pipe dream for a significant proportion of the population as they simply don't have the earnings to required to obtain a mortgage for a property.

Again, I did say 'excluding London / or similar areas'  but you keep quoting this and I have acknowledged this as an area which is difficult!  You have used 1996 as one years example, one year does not reflect a 'whole' 

I know. The ratios I quoted are the UK average. I only mentioned London the second time to explain that the ratios I quoted were not for London. I got the impression that you thought I had meant they were, and I was trying to explain that they weren't. Apologies if that is not the case.

There are more figures available. I used 1996 as that was the earliest ratio I could find quickly. I'm sure it's possible to find ratios from other years too, but I'm not inclined to go digging that far for a relaxed chat on an Internet forum. But, if anyone is interested, here are 2 links I found about the matter: https://www.schroders.com/en/uk/private-investor/insights/markets/what-174-years-of-data-tell-us-about-house-price-affordability-in-the-uk/  https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5568/housing/uk-house-price-affordability/

jennystarpepper

euronorris said:

jennystarpepper said:

euronorris said:

jennystarpepper said:

euronorris said:

Yes, it is harder for FTB now. The income to house price ratio is much higher. In 1996, this ratio was 3. By 2020, it was closer to 7. This ratio is much higher in London. House prices have risen at much higher rates than the average income, sadly, and having other things available at a cheaper rate is no longer sufficient to plug the gap (it was for a while).

I did say ... (excluding London / or similar areas).  1996 is being quoted, changes happen every year, good and bad. My comments are not just about cheaper things.  

Yes, and the ratios I quoted are the UK averages. The London ratios show a much greater gap between the average salary and the average house price. The facts are that buying a property is a pipe dream for a significant proportion of the population as they simply don't have the earnings to required to obtain a mortgage for a property.

Again, I did say 'excluding London / or similar areas'  but you keep quoting this and I have acknowledged this as an area which is difficult!  You have used 1996 as one years example, one year does not reflect a 'whole' 

I know. The ratios I quoted are the UK average. I only mentioned London the second time to explain that the ratios I quoted were not for London. I got the impression that you thought I had meant they were, and I was trying to explain that they weren't. Apologies if that is not the case.

There are more figures available. I used 1996 as that was the earliest ratio I could find quickly. I'm sure it's possible to find ratios from other years too, but I'm not inclined to go digging that far for a relaxed chat on an Internet forum. But, if anyone is interested, here are 2 links I found about the matter: https://www.schroders.com/en/uk/private-investor/insights/markets/what-174-years-of-data-tell-us-about-house-price-affordability-in-the-uk/  https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5568/housing/uk-house-price-affordability/

I appreciate what you have said but when you say ' The facts are' is not really a relaxed chat.  TBF I think you are using 1996 for your own reasons.

Just so you know something about me and why I think some FTB, have it hard... but many don't.

I once  worked 19 weeks (7 days a week) without a day off.  I continued to do this when I had a house.  

No holiday for 5 years.

I have a serious disability, I do not want or ask for empathy... it is what it is.  I worked for over 40 years with it.  

Never bought a new car, gadget or similar. (Out that year).


Maybe age plays a big thing, but for me ...

Film subs
Food subs
Take out food
Holidays
New mobiles
New gadgets
Paying for Gaming
£££ on buying new gaming devices
2 Car houses
Cleaners / house / windows
Car washing (not at home) 
River payment

Are these things are not necessity, I have not spent extra in this area. 


For me if you want all of this and want to save for a house... you can't have both.

I was  still working many 7days a week when paying a big new mortgage and helping a partner  to pay child support...




You said

The London ratios show a much greater gap between the average salary and the average house price. 

Again, I did say 'excluding London / or similar areas'  

You said... 


I only mentioned London the second time to explain that the ratios I quoted were not for London. 

-taff

Can we leave it there now please as you are both essentially saying times are tough, they were tough and some places were tougher than others.

EssexHebridean

jennystarpepper said:

Maybe age plays a big thing, but for me ...

Film subs
Food subs
Take out food
Holidays
New mobiles
New gadgets
Paying for Gaming
£££ on buying new gaming devices
2 Car houses
Cleaners / house / windows
Car washing (not at home) 
River payment

Are these things are not necessity, I have not spent extra in this area. 

I quoted MrEH’s revised travel costs if he had to return to using public transport earlier in this thread. If you add mine to the mix as well we’d be looking at in the region of £800-£900 a month. Our (two) cars cost in the region of £300 a month including fuel, depreciation and all other costs. For some people, running two cars may not be a necessity but it IS financial common sense.  We do need to remember that just because we’ve chosen not to spend in particular areas, that doesn’t make them “not necessity” for everyone else on the planet. Should a disabled person who struggles with energy levels for example be made to feel that they’re being extravagant by having a cleaner? 

A little empathy goes a long way - whether someone wants it or not, sometimes! 🙂

YoungBlueEyes

(What's a "river payment"?)

Jellytotts

I bought my first house in 1998, (south east coastal area, less than an hour from London) a 3 storey, 3 bed Victorian terrace with an old Anderson shelter in the back garden for £36k. We were a single wage household, no savings and renting so no chance of saving but I found a 100% mortgage that gave £1000 cash back on completion and then £1k the following year.  That first £1k paid for central heating to be installed. The 2nd paid for a new roof.  My Dad rewired the house and I learnt very quickly how to plaster/lay floors/tile/fit skirting boards etc.  interest rate was 6.9% and my monthly repayment was £162 (our rent was £450 on the previous property so we felt so flush).

That same house sold just before lockdown for £310k.  Income levels haven't risen in line with house prices here.

Both my DDs bought flats on the "shared ownership" scheme a few years back, got them both on the property ladder rather than stuck in the rental trap, pretty much the only way a single person can do it now without a huge deposit.  One has since sold hers and bought a house with her partner, the other is just about to do the same. They both had to pay mortgage (on the part they purchased) and rent on the remaining part but this was still around 50% of current rents on similar properties.  

These schemes seem few and far between now but worth investigating if you're a FTB.

OrkneyStar

Without giving too much away, I speak as someone who worked in debt advice for a brief spell (I enjoyed it but stop due to life circumstances), we have to be quite careful when we start imposing our own ideas of what is essential or not. When we gave advice we looked and incomings and outgoings, and while we had a 'crib' list of what expenses could normally be expected, there was some variation in that, and also we had to use common sense. For example, for someone living alone, retired, with a decent bus service which they rely on or family near for lifts, may well deem any car an unnecessary expense, whereas a working family may well need two cars simply for both parents to be able to get to work on time, within a reasonable timescale and reliably.  Another example could be a window cleaner - an elderly person, who isn't physically fit or able, and doesn't have relatives nearby who can help, may feel that a window cleaner is justified, whereas someone who is able, has time, has teen children who might help, may well think that they can clean the windows themselves. Another area that some people, often older folk, deem unnecessary is broadband - well, in modern life it is a necessity really, for school work if there are kids, for adults who might have to work at home (and many have recently), for 'job seekers' (inverted commas as it might have a new technical name now), and also for keeping in touch with relatives who might be abroad etc. The bottom line is, while there is guidance, regarding sensible expenditure, it's not really helpful to say 'it's not essential to me, so it's not an essential per se'. I hope people understand what I mean by this, of course there are some people who really do overspend on things that they maybe just don't need, but we also have to be careful not to be too judgmental and remember that it's not 'one size fits all'! On that note I wish you all well, and if anyone really is struggling then speak to someone you trust and see if you can get some help/guidance/assistance, don't suffer alone. 

euronorris

To get back on topic, for those of you who can get to a farmfoods easily, there are some cracking deals this week. Napolina tomato passata, 500g, at 29p. Baxters baby beetroot, 340g, at 59p, Walls Yummies ice lollies, 4 in a pack, 39p (up from 29p, but still a good deal). There are others, but just thought I'd highlight a few that stuck out to me