Euro Car Parks- Case management discussion Simple Procedure Scotland Gordon & Noble Mellicks

towniewarrior

Redx said:

We would assume the opposite , that the spurious £60 so called debt collector charges would be dismissed by the sheriff , leaving 7 times £80 = £560 , plus court fees , like it does down here

Still a lot of money for RK to pay for someone else' parking. Owner of car and main driver at time of offences will never admit to parking.            

Umkomaas

You might need legal advice. There are some free legal centres in some towns/cities in Scotland, I understand, so seek them out, get as much (free) legal advice as possible, because regulars here are not fully au fait and expert with the Scottish legal system. 

Fruitcake

If you were not present at the time of the alleged event, then you cannot know who was driving.

If you know it wasn't you, then you say so.
If you do not know who was driving, then you say you do not know.
There is no PoFA in Scotland, and even if there was, there is no requirement to name the driver. (Note that keeper liability will be introduced soon in Scotland, probably later this year, so watch out in the future.)

As far as I am aware there is no law in Scotland that can force anyone to name a driver, nor any penalty that can be imposed if they don't.
If the judge/advocate/sheriff demands to know, I believe you would have the right to ask what law/statute/authority applies. However, as others have said, you would be better served asking a person legally qualified in Scottish law to answer that.
Some solicitors offer a free half hour or hour, so you could do a search for one.
Some employers and unions offer a legal advice service, as do some types of insurance.

Coupon-mad

Put the facts in writing, a copy of the insurance document from that time and a copy of:

- the POPLA Annual Report 2015 section by Henry Greenslade about 'keeper liability' not passing in non-POFA cases (England has non-POFA cases too and keepers are never allowed to be presumed to be the driver, especially when the evidence suggests they were not).

- EXCEL v SMITH transcript from the Parling Prankster's case law pages.  That's an appeal to a Circuit Judge who confirmed that the law of agency does not apply and the keeper was not liable in law, in a non-POFA case.

Old_Slobberchops

towniewarrior said:

Redx said:

We would assume the opposite , that the spurious £60 so called debt collector charges would be dismissed by the sheriff , leaving 7 times £80 = £560 , plus court fees , like it does down here

Still a lot of money for RK to pay for someone else' parking. Owner of car and main driver at time of offences will never admit to parking.            

Make an offer to settle - £20 a ticket and explain the background that you fear violent repercussions from the driver if you identify them. Horizon usually settle for those amounts in Scotland, if you have mitigating circumstances. If its Mellicks that's doing the donkey work, Kenny Lang is the person to speak to.

The judge has ordered you to name the driver or face an evidential hearing. That's hard work and you can be put under oath and cross examined. However, you appear to have a chance of winning with your back story of threats of violence from the driver, if you can show bus travel to work, for example. Mellicks will have nothing to show you were the driver and the references elsewhere to the comments by the POPLA head adjudicator that a refusal to name the driver can't be taken as an admission that you were will be helpful. You just have to ask yourself if its worth £140.

Of course, if they don't accept then your only real option is to either pay the full amount or go to hearing. I'd suggest the hearing option in that event. If that's the case, PM me and I'll help where I can.

Redx

towniewarrior said:

Redx said:

We would assume the opposite , that the spurious £60 so called debt collector charges would be dismissed by the sheriff , leaving 7 times £80 = £560 , plus court fees , like it does down here

Still a lot of money for RK to pay for someone else' parking. Owner of car and main driver at time of offences will never admit to parking.            

Agreed , but I or we cannot change those facts that I mentioned , clarity is key here , separating the wheat from the chaff !

As slobberchops knows about these matters in Scotland , his or her advice is good enough for me

I believe that something will need to be paid , so its about mitigating the loss

Coupon-mad

Go with the advice of @Old_Slobberchops

towniewarrior

Old_Slobberchops said:

towniewarrior said:

Redx said:

We would assume the opposite , that the spurious £60 so called debt collector charges would be dismissed by the sheriff , leaving 7 times £80 = £560 , plus court fees , like it does down here

Still a lot of money for RK to pay for someone else' parking. Owner of car and main driver at time of offences will never admit to parking.            

Make an offer to settle - £20 a ticket and explain the background that you fear violent repercussions from the driver if you identify them. Horizon usually settle for those amounts in Scotland, if you have mitigating circumstances. If its Mellicks that's doing the donkey work, Kenny Lang is the person to speak to.

The judge has ordered you to name the driver or face an evidential hearing. That's hard work and you can be put under oath and cross examined. However, you appear to have a chance of winning with your back story of threats of violence from the driver, if you can show bus travel to work, for example. Mellicks will have nothing to show you were the driver and the references elsewhere to the comments by the POPLA head adjudicator that a refusal to name the driver can't be taken as an admission that you were will be helpful. You just have to ask yourself if its worth £140.

Of course, if they don't accept then your only real option is to either pay the full amount or go to hearing. I'd suggest the hearing option in that event. If that's the case, PM me and I'll help where I can.

Thank you for your advice. It is Mr Lang that is dealing with it. Really scunnered and raging with myself for being RK, thinking I was doing the right thing at the time! Live and learn. Not really want to go to court and have owner/main driver called as witness- thats another stress not needed.

Coupon-mad

Remember this offer:

Of course, if they don't accept then your only real option is to either pay the full amount or go to hearing. I'd suggest the hearing option in that event. If that's the case, PM me and I'll help where I can.

towniewarrior

Coupon-mad said:

Remember this offer:

Of course, if they don't accept then your only real option is to either pay the full amount or go to hearing. I'd suggest the hearing option in that event. If that's the case, PM me and I'll help where I can.

Appreciated 🤞🏻