Smart Parking fine. Overstay in KFC / Mcdonalds carpark. Visited on 2 occasions.

hereweare23

Hi all. I have been trawling the website for an hour now, and completely lost. I read the newbie section, but I'm obviously to thick to understand what to do next. 

We received a "Parking Charge Notice - Do Not Ignore" letter from Smart Parking on the 5th January 2022 saying we needed to make payment on a Parking Charge for an overstay on the 4th December 2021. The letter has two pictures, my car entering at 10:53, and leaving at 17:52 and saying that I stayed in the carpark longer then permitted. 

Now, we were in the carpark at those times, but (please don't judge) we had a mcdonalds breakfast in the morning and a KFC on the evening, but smart parking have added the time we entered in the morning, and when we left on our second visit.

This is a new car, and I hadn't installed the dashcam at this time, so no proof there. Due to the timeframe of the offence of almost a month, our home camera does not hold the data longer then a month, so I have no proof from our driveway camera.

Just to add to this, the smart cameras are on a roadway which passed by the KFC in the location, but do not show my car parked, just entering and leaving.

Anyway, stupidly I appealed the fine without looking on this website. I explained that we visited twice, and today I have received a letter saying they have reviewed all the camera images on the 4th December by all on site cameras and no other images were taken of our car (Which I find very hard to believe) They go on to say that I have overstayed the 60 minutes maximum free stay for a total of 358 minutes.

I have now reached the end of the internal appeals procedure and can either pay, or appeal further with POPLA. 

I dont know what to do now. If they would have written to me within 30 days, I would have had the camera images to prove our car was home for most of the day, and over the period they claim I was in the carpark. 

As I have no evidence, and I may have admitted that I was driving in my first appeal do I have any come back on this.

 I will be going to POPLA, and they have provided me with a code to do so, but any advice will be greatly appreciated. 

Trainerman

You need to read the newbies thread and get an understanding of all this. It seems that you have more than one defence option. As well as signage and so on, this 'double dipping' is a well known fault with ANPR (only recording first in and last out). Further, if I understand correctly, Smart do not use PoFA wording, so cannot make the Keeper liable. So as long as you have not said who was driving, you would be ok,so check whether you really did 'let the cat out of the bag'

D_P_Dance

IT IS NOT A FINE.  Please read the newbies

Read what Pete Wishart MP said recently in the House of commons about Smart Parking.and complain to your own MP.

"I am sick and tired of receiving emails from people complaining about the behaviour of parking companies, telling me that they will never again visit Perth city centre because of the negative experience they had when they had the misfortune to end up in a car park operated by one of these companies. I have received more complaints about one car park in the city of Perth than about any other issue. That car park is operated by the lone ranger of the parking cowboys: the hated and appalling Smart Parking—I see that many other Members are unfortunate enough to have Smart Parking operating in their constituencies. It has reached the stage where one member of my staff now spends a good part of each day just helping my constituents and visitors to my constituency to navigate the appeals process.

…
The BPA does not have the ability to regulate these companies and has shown no sign whatsoever that it is trying to get on top of some of the sharper practices. The BPA gives a veneer of legitimacy to some of the more outlandish rogue operators by including them in their membership, allowing them to continue to operate. The Bill will oblige operators such as Smart Parking to amend their practices.

Trainerman

By the way, can you confirm two visits via receipts or similar ? (timings on till receipts etc)

hereweare23

Trainerman said:

You need to read the newbies thread and get an understanding of all this. It seems that you have more than one defence option. As well as signage and so on, this 'double dipping' is a well known fault with ANPR (only recording first in and last out). Further, if I understand correctly, Smart do not use PoFA wording, so cannot make the Keeper liable. So as long as you have not said who was driving, you would be ok,so check whether you really did 'let the cat out of the bag'

Thank you. Stupidly I didnt save the appeal I made. I will ask Smart parking if they have a copy. 
I'll give the newbies section a go again later, have a banging headache, so maybe that is the reason I am not understanding it. 

hereweare23

Trainerman said:

By the way, can you confirm two visits via receipts or similar ? (timings on till receipts etc)

Yeah, I have spoken to my bank, we have a transaction at mcd in the morning, and kfc on the evening. However that doesnt prove that we didn't stay there I guess?

Trainerman

hereweare23 said:

Trainerman said:

By the way, can you confirm two visits via receipts or similar ? (timings on till receipts etc)

Yeah, I have spoken to my bank, we have a transaction at mcd in the morning, and kfc on the evening. However that doesnt prove that we didn't stay there I guess?

Not absolute proof, but if you live locally it adds enormously to the balance of probabilities

Le_Kirk

Also do you have Google Time Line on your phone?  Were you shopping elsewhere?  Did you go to work?  Did you visit anyone?  Lots of possibilities.  Submit a SAR to the DPO of the PPC (acronyms in fifth post of the NEBWIE sticky) and ask for ALL the data they have on you and your vehicle with VRM of AB12CDE including any orphan images.  Attach a COPY/SCAN of the PCB plus your V5C to prove it is you.  Only respond as KEEPER not DRIVER.

Umkomaas

👆 You should receive a copy of your appeal to them via this, so you/we will know exactly what you said in it. Just put in an extra line to your SAR list of required data to require them to send you that. 

hereweare23

Le_Kirk said:

Also do you have Google Time Line on your phone?  Were you shopping elsewhere?  Did you go to work?  Did you visit anyone?  Lots of possibilities.  Submit a SAR to the DPO of the PPC (acronyms in fifth post of the NEBWIE sticky) and ask for ALL the data they have on you and your vehicle with VRM of AB12CDE including any orphan images.  Attach a COPY/SCAN of the PCB plus your V5C to prove it is you.  Only respond as KEEPER not FRIVER.

Thank you. I will request the info. No timeline, and we didnt visit anywhere else, it was a lazy Saturday for us. 

Trainerman

I have just read back on this. As well as the SAR etc as advised by Le_Kirk and Umkomaas, (which you should continue with), it seems you have yet to use Plan A.As a loyal customer of both McDonalds and KFC, they should both be very interested in keeping your custom. They should both be keen to get this scam ticket removed. Have at them !!!