Small claims criminal damage

Sandtree

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

Alderbank said:

Sandtree said:

As they were cautioned there has been no admission of guilt...

No. Quite the opposite. A caution means in every case that the offender has admitted the offence
The CPS says:

A simple caution must not be offered to a person who has not admitted to committing the offence

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

In practice police give cautions to people who have denied the offence too... or at least with the ex they cautioned her even though she denied committing any offence

Inevitably you also get those who will admit to something because doing so gets them a caution and the hassle goes away rather than fighting a minor offence allegation that would be much more disruptive to life. 

No, they are not. 

Part of the condition of a caution is a full admission to the offence. 

Well then the police got it wrong as there was an adamant denial... wont be the first thing the police got wrong ever

DB1904

Sandtree said:

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

Alderbank said:

Sandtree said:

As they were cautioned there has been no admission of guilt...

No. Quite the opposite. A caution means in every case that the offender has admitted the offence
The CPS says:

A simple caution must not be offered to a person who has not admitted to committing the offence

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

In practice police give cautions to people who have denied the offence too... or at least with the ex they cautioned her even though she denied committing any offence

Inevitably you also get those who will admit to something because doing so gets them a caution and the hassle goes away rather than fighting a minor offence allegation that would be much more disruptive to life. 

No, they are not. 

Part of the condition of a caution is a full admission to the offence. 

Well then the police got it wrong as there was an adamant denial... wont be the first thing the police got wrong ever

Were you present in the interview?

Remember you ex will have signed the caution for admitting again to the offence. 

user1977

Also bear in mind the potential for confusion, as a "caution" also refers to the warning that "you do not have to say anything..." - so everyone is "cautioned" when arrested or interviewed, but that's not the same as the "alternative to a prosecution" caution.

But assuming it's the latter, is that public knowledge i.e. could you use it as evidence in a civil case?

Sandtree

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

Alderbank said:

Sandtree said:

As they were cautioned there has been no admission of guilt...

No. Quite the opposite. A caution means in every case that the offender has admitted the offence
The CPS says:

A simple caution must not be offered to a person who has not admitted to committing the offence

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

In practice police give cautions to people who have denied the offence too... or at least with the ex they cautioned her even though she denied committing any offence

Inevitably you also get those who will admit to something because doing so gets them a caution and the hassle goes away rather than fighting a minor offence allegation that would be much more disruptive to life. 

No, they are not. 

Part of the condition of a caution is a full admission to the offence. 

Well then the police got it wrong as there was an adamant denial... wont be the first thing the police got wrong ever

Were you present in the interview?

Remember you ex will have signed the caution for admitting again to the offence. 

I was present at the drafting and handing in of her statement following the interview and it denied all but one of the accusations, the one it partially admitted to it stated was incorrectly represented and didnt amount to an offence. I was present when the police stated that they were just going to give her a caution and she should avoid any further contact with her ex etc... it was 15 years ago now but I cannot remember her signing anything in relation to the caution 

DB1904

Sandtree said:

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

Alderbank said:

Sandtree said:

As they were cautioned there has been no admission of guilt...

No. Quite the opposite. A caution means in every case that the offender has admitted the offence
The CPS says:

A simple caution must not be offered to a person who has not admitted to committing the offence

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

In practice police give cautions to people who have denied the offence too... or at least with the ex they cautioned her even though she denied committing any offence

Inevitably you also get those who will admit to something because doing so gets them a caution and the hassle goes away rather than fighting a minor offence allegation that would be much more disruptive to life. 

No, they are not. 

Part of the condition of a caution is a full admission to the offence. 

Well then the police got it wrong as there was an adamant denial... wont be the first thing the police got wrong ever

Were you present in the interview?

Remember you ex will have signed the caution for admitting again to the offence. 

I was present at the drafting and handing in of her statement following the interview and it denied all but one of the accusations, the one it partially admitted to it stated was incorrectly represented and didnt amount to an offence. I was present when the police stated that they were just going to give her a caution and she should avoid any further contact with her ex etc... it was 15 years ago now but I cannot remember her signing anything in relation to the caution 

So a warning not to commit further offences rather than a formal caution. 

Sandtree

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

DB1904 said:

Sandtree said:

Alderbank said:

Sandtree said:

As they were cautioned there has been no admission of guilt...

No. Quite the opposite. A caution means in every case that the offender has admitted the offence
The CPS says:

A simple caution must not be offered to a person who has not admitted to committing the offence

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/cautioning-and-diversion

In practice police give cautions to people who have denied the offence too... or at least with the ex they cautioned her even though she denied committing any offence

Inevitably you also get those who will admit to something because doing so gets them a caution and the hassle goes away rather than fighting a minor offence allegation that would be much more disruptive to life. 

No, they are not. 

Part of the condition of a caution is a full admission to the offence. 

Well then the police got it wrong as there was an adamant denial... wont be the first thing the police got wrong ever

Were you present in the interview?

Remember you ex will have signed the caution for admitting again to the offence. 

I was present at the drafting and handing in of her statement following the interview and it denied all but one of the accusations, the one it partially admitted to it stated was incorrectly represented and didnt amount to an offence. I was present when the police stated that they were just going to give her a caution and she should avoid any further contact with her ex etc... it was 15 years ago now but I cannot remember her signing anything in relation to the caution 

So a warning not to commit further offences rather than a formal caution. 

The exact word used was "caution" rather than "warning" as she asked about its impact on criminal records checks (she worked in FS too) and was advised that cautions are immediately spent under the rehabilitation of offenders act and so wouldnt appear or need to be disclosed 

Manxman_in_exile

Then they couldn't have formally* cautioned her.  If they did it would appear on her record.

One of the first things you learn as a law student is that if you get into trouble with the police and they offer you a caution, you should never accept it unless you know you have no hope of defending the charge and will otherwise be convicted.

Lots of young people and their parents have been very disappointed to learn that the caution that the "nice" police offered them has resulted in a criminal record.

Police cautions generally stay on your record for 6 years as I understand it, and will appear on a standard DBS certificate for at least that length of time.  If the caution was for certain defined offences, it may appear for longer than 6 years.

*IIRC a conditional caution expires for all intents and purposes after 3(?) months or when the conditions no longer apply.  Sounds like that may have been what your ex got - especially if she worked in financial services...

Sandtree

Manxman_in_exile said:

Then they couldn't have formally* cautioned her.  If they did it would appear on her record.

One of the first things you learn as a law student is that if you get into trouble with the police and they offer you a caution, you should never accept it unless you know you have no hope of defending the charge and will otherwise be convicted.

Lots of young people and their parents have been very disappointed to learn that the caution that the "nice" police offered them has resulted in a criminal record.

Police cautions generally stay on your record for 6 years as I understand it, and will appear on a standard DBS certificate for at least that length of time.  If the caution was for certain defined offences, it may appear for longer than 6 years.

*IIRC a conditional caution expires for all intents and purposes after 3(?) months or when the conditions no longer apply.  Sounds like that may have been what your ex got - especially if she worked in financial services...

Its the other way around... Rehabilitation Periods - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Cautions are immediately spent, conditional cautions are 3 months or until the condition ends (if sooner)

FS dont use enhanced disclosure and so anything spent doesnt appear

Manxman_in_exile

Well I must say I'm very surprised by that link.  I didn't think it was any where near as straightforward as that.  (Although it does look like I've got conditional cautions wrong?)

I was under the impression that the current position was as outlined here:  Criminal records that don't show (stay) on standard and enhanced DBS checks (filtering and protected cautions and convictions) - Unlock    Perhaps I need to read it again...

But I still think your original claim that you can deny an offence and still be cautioned for it is mistaken.  My understanding has always been that if you know you aren't guilty you should never accept a caution and you should challenge the police to prove it beyond reasonable doubt in court.  More often than not, if you refuse the caution that's the end of the matter. 

I certainly wouldn't accept a caution if I were confident that I hadn't done anything I could be convicted for.

"Cautions

Cautions are given to anyone aged 10 or over for minor crimes - for example writing graffiti on a bus shelter.

You have to admit an offence and agree to be cautioned. [My bold]. You can be arrested and charged if you don’t agree.

A caution is not a criminal conviction, but it could be used as evidence of bad character if you go to court for another crime.

Cautions can show on standard and enhanced DBS checks"

Police cautions, warnings and penalty notices - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Sandtree

I think my wording was wrong and its "basic" rather than "standard" checks that are typically done... I didnt realise there were 3 tiers. 

Cannot see the last one done on me (also in FS) because "DBS" unfortunately brings back millions of results about "DBs" (databases) and it seems I like to use the word disclosure alot too but looking at two random providers of DBS checks they state the Basic DBS only brings back unspent convictions and conditional cautions