Staying after Section 21?

saajan_12

Lost_Property said:

canaldumidi said:

4) if you wish to end the tenancy, you must serve the proper notice (despite the S21). Proper notice depends if you are in a fixed term, have a Break Clause, have a CPT, or a PT.

This is not established in law afaik and I don't know of anyone that has had to pay rent in lieu of notice out of their deposit if they complied with a S21 by giving up possession, which is what they are being asked to do some time "after" the date in question (not "on"). - Well is there case law the other way ie where a LL has claimed rent and been denied? (not that I've seen). You can't comply with a S21 as it doesn't actually ask you to leave. 

If a tenant gave their own notice it would have to end on a rent day and they would therefore expect to stay until the end of that full period paid for even if it took them well past the S21 date. Landlords would not normally want the tenant to stay longer than necessary. - not necessarily.. depends if on a SPT or CPT, tenant's notice may not be a full period. Also if the S21 expires, isn't acted on and the LL lets the tenant stay. Then months later you're suggesting a tenant can just up and leave sans notice? Seems silly.. 

There is also a provision under Section 21C of the Housing Act 1988 for a tenant to receive a pro rata refund of any rent already paid in advance for days that they do not occupy due to moving out as a result of an S21. That would not be consistent with giving a month's notice as the concept of giving notice implies also paying rent for the full duration of that notice. Whatever was intended the law isn't well-drafted and plenty of legal folk argue on either side.  - provision quoted below: its only trigger if the tenancy ends as a result of a S21, which legally can only be by a court or mutual agreement. Neither the expiry of a S21 nor the tenant just moving out trigger that. There's no mention that the S21 notice date is the tenancy end date. 

Rather than give notice and prejudice my own position in case things fell through at the last minute (because a tenant's own notice legally ends the tenancy and therefore right to further occupation) surely it's far better to negotiate an agreed surrender with a threat of waiting for court action if the landlord won't comply. - This I agree with: Plan A should be to try to negotiate an early surrender. However the LL may not agree, and if the T has plans to move or a mortgage already in place, then its not in their interest to let it go to court and pay rent +  mortgage for a long overlap. Threats work both ways.  

I'd want my deposit back in full in cash on hand-over of keys too, before I'd email permission for the deposit people to release it to him.  -Yeah dream on. You'll get your deposit back when the property is fully inspected, damages evaluated and relevant deductions made. You can't (successfully) demand any better from the deposit scheme either. 

This is what Section 21C actually says: Note its only triggered if the tenancy is ended as a result of the S21. That can only happen by a court or mutual agreement, and is not the same as the tenant just moving out or the S21 notice expiring. Can't see how you'd read that as the rent being pro rata'd back to the tenant's move out date if that's well beore court. 

(1)A tenant under an assured shorthold tenancy of a dwelling-house in England is entitled to a repayment of rent from the landlord where—

(a)as a result of the service of a notice under section 21 the tenancy is brought to an end before the end of a period of the tenancy,

(b)the tenant has paid rent in advance for that period, and

(c)the tenant was not in occupation of the dwelling-house for one or more whole days of that period.

(2)The amount of repayment to which a tenant is entitled under subsection (1) is to be calculated in accordance with the following formula—

where—

R is the rent paid for the final period;

D is the number of whole days of the final period for which the tenant was not in occupation of the dwelling-house; and

P is the number of whole days in that period.