Staying after Section 21?

alexjared93

Would really appreciate your help / advice please on staying post Section 21? (have read online and understand only a tenant / court can end a tenancy)

We've had issues with disrepair for months and after complaining to LL regarding heating we was served a S21 in Dec (after 5 years of living here, with property well kept rent always on time).

Tried negotiating with LL to extend / reconsider but advised he was selling for retirement and had no choice but for us to leave. (we decided against revenge eviction and looked to buy a house) However We found we had no gas certificate and new S21 (with valid gas cert) in January, dated 10 March 2022.

We have purchased a new build home (yay!) but unfortunately house will not be ready until end of March.

If we stay for 2-3 weeks max after S21 expires, can the landlord do anything? I.E charge us any fees apart from the standard rent for that period? (appreciate they can apply to court but this would take months and we would only stay for a further 2-3 weeks) 

Also, if we send a letter at end of feb providing our 30 day notice stating we will leave property end of March (despite S21 dated for 10th March) would this be an acceptable way of informing LL we will continue the tenancy post S21?

Appreciate your support in advance  

Chris_English

Rather than adding to the stress of a house move with an argument with your landlord, why not ask the removal company to store your items for a couple of weeks and stay in a B&B or hotel?

emmajones1976

Well you dont need a reference, and yes you are right in the space of 2/3 weeks he cant do anything in terms of getting rid of you.

I personally would say crack on. Change the locks just in case, change them back before you leave. And pay the period you overstay for.

theartfullodger

An s21, even of valid (sounds like this one isn't) does not end tenancy nor compel tenant to leave.  Court process taking about 44 weeks now I understand.  You need to nothing.

I'd suggest waiting until s21 expires (staying..), then contact landlord (directly if possible) and offer to leave on such date as suits you if he would like to assist you with your expenses.  He'll either offer something worthwhile or you can watch him squirm, suffer, worry... 

Don't give notice until you are absolutely sure the new house (congrats btw..) really will be ready.  In your shoes I'd go for a couple of days overlap to make life easier. 

Best regards to all 

Artful: Landlord since 2000

WickedWitch123

I agree with others and say I would 100% stay in your rental until your house is ready.  Obviously you will pay your rent for as long as you're there.  Let your landlord know that you'll be staying for the time being. 
Best wishes in your new home.

PRAISETHESUN

A S21 notice is just a notice that the LL intends to start court proceedings to have you evicted - it's a long drawn out process, and the LL needs to do a lot of things right to actually have a chance of being successful (it already sounds like they might've messed things up anyway, but that's their problem). As has been discussed above, there's little the LL can realistically do if you don't want to work to their time frame - you hold pretty much all the power here and if the LL wants you gone in a hurry then they need to incentivise you to do so (£££).

Keep to the terms of your current tenancy agreement, pay your rent on time, and only give notice when you are 100% sure you are ready to leave. You'll be gone long before it ever gets to court.

alexjared93

PRAISETHESUN said:

A S21 notice is just a notice that the LL intends to start court proceedings to have you evicted - it's a long drawn out process, and the LL needs to do a lot of things right to actually have a chance of being successful (it already sounds like they might've messed things up anyway, but that's their problem). As has been discussed above, there's little the LL can realistically do if you don't want to work to their time frame - you hold pretty much all the power here and if the LL wants you gone in a hurry then they need to incentivise you to do so (£££).

Keep to the terms of your current tenancy agreement, pay your rent on time, and only give notice when you are 100% sure you are ready to leave. You'll be gone long before it ever gets to court.

Thank you so much (& for every one else's advice above) This really helps! 

Our current S21 ends 10th March and while our new house is forecasted to be ready around 30th March, your advice really re-assures what I thought - I just didn't want to get in a mess with possible extra charges when money is tight.

Will continue to stay post S21 and advise LL nearer to the time of S21 expiring

Thank you so much

 

emmajones1976

Also remember he cant use the excuse of "you stayed longer" as a reason to keep your deposit, assuming you paid in full for the time you were there.

canaldumidi

1) "We've had issues with disrepair for months and after complaining to LL regarding heating we was served a S21 in Dec". Depening what the issue was and how the LL dealt with it, you could refer this to EH. If they agree repairs are needed, then the S21 would be invaldated (even if valid when served). See The Deregulation Act 2015 (S33)

2) was there a gas certificate when you moved in? If yes, and there is also an up-to-date one when S21 served, the S21 is valid (from that perspective). If none at the start ofthe tenancy, then despite getting an up-to-date one now, the S21 remains invalid. See Trecarrell House V Rouncefireld 2020

3) when the S21 expires, the tenancy does not end. It could take 6 months for the LL toobtain a court order

4) if you wish to end the tenancy, you must serve the proper notice (despite the S21). Proper notice depends if you are in a fixed term, have a Break Clause, have a CPT, or a PT.

Lost_Property

canaldumidi said:

4) if you wish to end the tenancy, you must serve the proper notice (despite the S21). Proper notice depends if you are in a fixed term, have a Break Clause, have a CPT, or a PT.

This is not established in law afaik and I don't know of anyone that has had to pay rent in lieu of notice out of their deposit if they complied with a S21 by giving up possession, which is what they are being asked to do some time "after" the date in question (not "on").

If a tenant gave their own notice it would have to end on a rent day and they would therefore expect to stay until the end of that full period paid for even if it took them well past the S21 date. Landlords would not normally want the tenant to stay longer than necessary.

There is also a provision under Section 21C of the Housing Act 1988 for a tenant to receive a pro rata refund of any rent already paid in advance for days that they do not occupy due to moving out as a result of an S21. That would not be consistent with giving a month's notice as the concept of giving notice implies also paying rent for the full duration of that notice. Whatever was intended the law isn't well-drafted and plenty of legal folk argue on either side. 

Rather than give notice and prejudice my own position in case things fell through at the last minute (because a tenant's own notice legally ends the tenancy and therefore right to further occupation) surely it's far better to negotiate an agreed surrender with a threat of waiting for court action if the landlord won't comply. I'd want my deposit back in full in cash on hand-over of keys too, before I'd email permission for the deposit people to release it to him.

Leggitte

My advise: Keep it amicable, if still possible. Explain to the Land Lord what your plans are, including that you are in the process of buying a house. Give proper notice when ready (explained above) and live happily ever after in your new home. Congrats!

Educate him, if necessary, that this is the cheapest and fastest way for him to get his house back. No need for him to take you to court, just because you can. You do have all the power.