PME System, can it be removed?

CashStrappedTeen89

We’re in the process of getting quotes for rendering as ours is really bad. As part of the works we discussed the PME system which is at the front of our house and also attached to next door.

I wondered if anyone in the know can advise if it can be removed at all? From my research PME is a grounding system so I wondered if alternative could be done?

reason we want to remove is it’s rusting, looks really bad with the cost of insulated render going on I’d prefer to move it out of site or remove altogether.

gm0

You need to understand where this fits into your and your neighbour's wiring scheme. 

If it is "upstream" of your main fuses (the DNO fuse which feed your meter and consumer units and sockets and lights.  If it is then it doesn't belong to you. It belongs to the DNO and only they or their agent should fiddle with it.

Downstream stuff inside your metering you can fiddle with by hiring a Part P qualified electrician who can move, change, add within the rules and sign off.  PME earthing is a system where the Neutral and Earth conductors are bonded at multiple points.  One of which will be "at your house" around the supply fuse.  You will also likely have one or more earth connections downstream as part of your wiring.

So this mess may relate to the earthing and supply scheme for the street not just your house.   It is one of several historic systems.  If yours and the neighbours wiring are more generally mingled then you may also have what is known as a "looped supply" where a single cable from the pole or street duct comes to one house feeds a fuse and meter and then goes on to another.  This is also worth looking at because the rules and practices for tidying up looped supplies (and their earths) are in flux - government wants us all to go EV + charge points at some point which requires the DNO to sort some of this mess which didn't anticipate these developments.

Generally DNOs will opportunistically charge whoever asks them to do something as an upgrade quite a lot.  Maintaining your supply safely is at their own cost.  But cosmetic changes usually aren't.  Mine wanted >750 to move my main fuse an inch to make room for the smart meter which I politely declined.  On the other hand they are generally good on fuse checks, safety issues.  They also came and fixed my supply PME for free once an electrician had identified the earthing fault doing other testing which had blocked him signing off his own work.  Hope this helps.

fenwick458

What is the PME system exactly? what do you have on your house, a transformer?

gm0

@fenwick458

https://professional-electrician.com/technical/protective-multiple-earthings-pme/

I wasn't trying to accurately identify what OP and neighbour actually have on the ground. Visual+continuity tester needed.
Merely give a steer as to the "who" and the high level constraints on fiddilng with distribution and house wiring more generally.

Some people clearly fiddle with and rejig wiring and earthing themselves. But some people's houses also burn down and others get electrocuted by problems aggravated by compromised earthing.

But you wouldn't catch me recommending fiddling with household earthing on an unknown installation on an open forum

So clear implication is to get a qualified - Part P + wiring regs sparky to move it out of the way. Or if they can't move it having tested and ID'd whats connected to what then they can explain what options exist.

Ectophile

PME is "Protective Multiple Earthing".  With a PME supply, you only have a live and neutral coming into the property, but the neutral is earthed at multiple points on its run between the transformer and the homes it supplies.  Your Main Earth Terminal is connected to the supply neutral.

That's different to the old-fashoned system that used lead sheathed cable, and the lead sheath was the earth "wire".

I suppose it's possible that the electricity supply company have decided to add an earth on your property, but I have never heard of them doing it before.

Otherwise, removing the PME means disconnecting your electricity supply.  Do you like gas lamps?

It's not unknown on older installations to have electric cables stringing along the front of a row of houses.  I don't think they do that any more, but changing it on existing installations is a lot of work, and the supply company won't want to change it without a very good reason.  (Offering them lots of money would be a good reason).  But they should come out and repair any faults.

Edit: I suspect somebody saw a sticky label saying that the house has a PME supply.  Maybe they assumed it referred to wires strung along multiple houses.

CashStrappedTeen89

Thank you everyone for the info so far, just to provide a bit more detail I’ve attached some photos which may help clarify further.

fyi I’ve literally just had a EV charger installed for my Tesla. 

Ectophile

Contrary to what I said previously, I think that may actually be a connection to an earth rod.  In which case:-

1. Don't remove it; it's a connection to a safety earth rod
2. Don't fiddle with it without the permission of your local DNO (district network operator)
   

fenwick458

where does that cable(vertical, with the PME label on it) go to and where does it come from?
are you sure it isn't your supply cable?
is the supply underground or overhead?

I'm guessing here but if the 2 cables running horizontally are live & neutral and feed all houses on the terrace and there's a connection at the end then it was an old TT system, which at some point has been upgraded to TNCS (PME) and they have chosen to install a rod at your house and possibly more houses along the row.
if that's the case the likelihood of getting the DNO to remove it are very low as it 's an essential part of the supply, but as is the case with any of their cables fastened to customers houses if you tell the you are having it rendered they will send someone before scaffolding goes up to remove the cables from the house and insulate them if necessary whilst the work goes on, then they come back and re-attach it at the end. they normally do that for free.
I suppose you could get it removed completely but be prepared for a wild quote from the DNO they will class it as un necessary

Section62

fenwick458 said:

are you sure it isn't your supply cable?

Given the size - scaled against the gas pipes and Virgin box - I'd also expect that to be the supply rather than an earthing connection.

grumbler

fenwick458 said:

if the 2 cables running horizontally are live & neutral

I see only one horizontal cable

CashStrappedTeen89

It goes straight into the ground, what is wierd is we got a cheque through the post about 2-3 months ago for way leave, I rang the provider and asked what it was for and basically they said Because they had a cable that was supplying next door from our house they had to pay the previous owner and then us.
They said they would check to confirm though, when they did come back they advise it was no longer used and next door had their own supply sorted.

My assumption from some of the comments is it relates to this? However with the metal plaque showing PME which indicates a grounding system on a quick Google I can’t be sure.

Am I best to speak with my gas supplier or national grid to check and confirm? I honestly can’t remember the supplier who sent the cheque as we destroyed it once they confirmed it was a dead supply.