Automated thermostat / heating

Chris_English

I’ve quite a large and old house in Newcastle, where the combination of sash windows, size, and location mean it costs a lot to heat. I’m working on getting permission to replace the old single-glazed sash windows with double-glazed ones, but as it’s listed, it’s going to take some time.

It has a conventional boiler with hot water tank, and two-zone central heating through radiators, one zone for the lower floors, another for the top ones, with a thermostat for each, and a control unit in the kitchen where I can choose the times that each zone (and the hot water) is on and off.

The thermostats are standard wired ones, on the wall.

Can anyone suggest where I should start if I want to look at getting a more modern, adaptable setup? I was thinking of the bells and whistles Evohome system, with a WiFi enable thermostatic valve on each of the fifteen radiators, but the guy who serviced my boiler said that in his opinion you can get nearly as good an effect with “smart” thermostats to replace the two current ones, and by taking some time to get the traditional thermostatic valves set up properly.

That being the case, buying a couple of Nest Thermostat E units to replace the current ones could be a decent option.

One reason that I want “smart” ones is that the house is not used all the time, so I’d like to both be able to monitor the temperature when I’m away, and set it to heat up when we’re travelling up there.

What are people’s thoughts on my options? Any and all suggestions gratefully received.

grumbler

Chris_English said:

One reason that I want “smart” ones is that the house is not used all the time, so I’d like to both be able to monitor the temperature when I’m away, and set it to heat up when we’re travelling up there.

What are people’s thoughts on my options? Any and all suggestions gratefully received.

For this you need a smart thermostat is 'geofencing' option.

I am no expert, but IIRC, come brands offer this option in monthly pay-for subscription fashion, and I personally would never pay for this  on principal.

With my Honeywell Lyric T6R it's free, but I've never used it so far. And I'm not sure if it supports multi-zone heating.

Chris_English

grumbler said:

Chris_English said:

One reason that I want “smart” ones is that the house is not used all the time, so I’d like to both be able to monitor the temperature when I’m away, and set it to heat up when we’re travelling up there.

What are people’s thoughts on my options? Any and all suggestions gratefully received.

For this you need a smart thermostat is 'geofencing' option.

I am no expert, but IIRC, come brands offer this option in monthly pay-for subscription fashion, and I personally would never pay for this  on principal.

With my Honeywell Lyric T6R it's free, but I've never used it so far. And I'm not sure if it supports multi-zone heating.

While geofencing would be nice to have, I’m also happy enough to just use an app to tell it when I’m heading up there, it doesn’t need to do it automatically.

BUFF

15 smart TRVS is going to cost you ~£600 (more if evohome). Whether they are better than conventional TRVs is up to how you use them/the rooms. (this is an interesting read as it gives opinions from both sides. https://www.smarthomepoint.com/smart-radiator-valves/ & bear in mind that heating an "historic building" built traditionally is somewhat different than one built from modern materials*)
What model of boiler do you have/how old/is it condensing?
What are the current programmer/stats?
Imo I tend to side with your service guy so, would you consider starting with 2 smart thermostats on their own but with the option to add smart TRVs later if you still feel the need?

iirc Nest don't have any smart TRVs for direct integration so if you do go down that road you would be better looking at Hive/Honeywell/Tado/Wiser etc. 

*you mention hopefully going to double from single glazing - have you done the usual low hanging fruit for saving heat (draught-proofing, roof insulation etc.)?

Money_Grabber13579

Is the hot water on a different system i.e. is it separately controlled from both of the two heating zones? If so, I don’t think the Nest E will work as I don’t think it has any hot water control.

daivid

For the controller it sounds like you need a 3 channel controller, which will give you two heating zones and hot water control.

Fitting smart trv's everywhere sounds like overkill to me but I guess it depends how you use your home. In my house there are a couple rooms I want to ensure are warm on demand and plenty of others that so long as they are not really cold I'm happy to be a bit cooler and warm from dissipated heat from the warm rooms or if needed me turning up the trv manually. I've decided not to bother with smart trv's ( I did consider getting 2 to use in key rooms) as I think I can get the control I need with manual ones and if there is an efficiency saving to be had with smart trv's it would take me a long time to recoup the £30-40 for each one. 

Chris_English

Money_Grabber13579 said:

Is the hot water on a different system i.e. is it separately controlled from both of the two heating zones? If so, I don’t think the Nest E will work as I don’t think it has any hot water control.

Yes, the control unit does the theee things separately, Zone 1, Zone 2 and hot water.

To answer the question above I’m probably happy just to start with the connected thermostats, but I do quite like the option of being able to turn the heating on earlier in the children’s bedroom than the rest of the house.

FreeBear

How tech savvy are you and do you like "messing" with computers ?

I've been using Home Assistant for a couple of years now to control my heating - It also logs data from a bunch of sensors dotted around the house. The data should allow me to see what improvements are worthwhile as each room gets refurbished.

No problems setting up heating zones or geofencing, nor are there any subscription fees to pay (unless you want Alexa/Siri conectivity). Downside is it is a steep learning curve until you get the hang of stuff. You also get dragged down that rabbit hole of "hey, I can do this, and that, and, and....".

daivid

Chris_English said:

Money_Grabber13579 said:

Is the hot water on a different system i.e. is it separately controlled from both of the two heating zones? If so, I don’t think the Nest E will work as I don’t think it has any hot water control.

Yes, the control unit does the theee things separately, Zone 1, Zone 2 and hot water.

To answer the question above I’m probably happy just to start with the connected thermostats, but I do quite like the option of being able to turn the heating on earlier in the children’s bedroom than the rest of the house.

So would you have smart trvs on all other radiators in the zone so the other rooms are turned down and the children's rooms are turned up? You wouldn't need smart trvs in the children's rooms if they are all coming on (and off) at the same time but would in other rooms in the zone you want to heat up but later. A 'starter pack’ with hub, 2 thermostats (1 for each zone) and 2 smart trvs may be enough to get you started before you potentially spend £100s on smart trvs for every radiator. 

If you haven't done so already it might be worth investigating how much the radiators in each room actually activate. You have already highlighted the need to improve insulation, so your radiators may all be working hard all the time, in my reasonably well insulated house (dg, loft and cavity wall insulation) the radiator in my bedroom hardly ever gets hot (I have the trv set to 2) as the room gets plenty of warmth from the living room below.

FaceHead

Not going to recommend the nest e to replace your setup. The UK version of the nest e needs to be plugged in and it then communicates wirelessly with the heatlink. The heatlink can either be put where your current thermostat is, or, more commonly it goes in the boiler cupboard.

If you want the thermostat to end up sitting on a piece of furniture then go for the nest e. If you want the thermostat(s) to end up  wall mounted, replacing your current ones, you'll need the original nest learning thermostat, which is much more expensive. 

Chris_English

FreeBear said:

How tech savvy are you and do you like "messing" with computers ?

I've been using Home Assistant for a couple of years now to control my heating - It also logs data from a bunch of sensors dotted around the house. The data should allow me to see what improvements are worthwhile as each room gets refurbished.

No problems setting up heating zones or geofencing, nor are there any subscription fees to pay (unless you want Alexa/Siri conectivity). Downside is it is a steep learning curve until you get the hang of stuff. You also get dragged down that rabbit hole of "hey, I can do this, and that, and, and....".

I’ll have a look at that, thanks. I am currently learning Python, and got a Raspberry Pi for Christmas, so I’m happy tinkering.