Euro Car Parks Fine - Letter from debt collectors

Martin_o03

Hello 

I'm needing some help with a private parking ticket I received from Euro Car Parks back in November. I have tried to look over the advice on the specific page on the site but I'm not sure what to do given the stage I'm at now.

It was at West End Retail Park in Glasgow, I was parked for just over 3 hours during which time I had been for a coffee in Cafe Nero and shopping in Sainsbury's and M&S. I had read advice on here initially to ignore any letter from them, so I ignored the first one. The second one came just before Christmas which I had planned to respond to but over the Christmas period it completely slipped my mind and I did not respond.

It's now been passed onto a debt collectors - 'Debt Recovery Plus' - and risen to £170. states that I can set up a payment plan or face potential court action. It also states that I no longer have the right to appeal.

Could anyone assist me in the best way to respond to this, I refuse to pay £170 for a shopping trip. To run a car park where there is a cafe and various shops were you could easily spend hours in and have such a penalty in place is disgusting.

Any help would be appreciated!

D_P_Dance

It is not a fine, please read the newbies.

As you are in  Scotland, different law applies.  Please read the newbies and complain to your MP.  Also read this.

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount of £70 for debt collection.

This amounts to double recovery and Judges all over the country are dismissing these spurious additions. Indeed some judges have dismissed entire claims because of this. Read this and complain to Trading Standards and your MP,

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V Excel v Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

However, VCS appealed this so it may not apply in all cases, read this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntksx9g7177ahyg/VCS v Percy v1 Amendments (2).pdf?dl=0Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Trainerman

DRP can be ignored, as can debt collectors generally when it comes to PPC PCNs. They have no power, and I would never talk to them. My understanding is that there is no  liability for the keeper in Scotland (yet) so do not tell them the driver ! From reading other threads, I gather that there is little chance of Court because  the claim would be under £300, though you might want to double check on that.

Unless, of course, you were visiting Scotland but live in England ?

D_P_Dance

Unless, of course, you were visiting Scotland but live in England ?

Surely if the alleged breach occurred  in Scotland a claim must be lodged in Scotland.  

Coupon-mad

Ignore it, if you stay in Scotland.   You shouldn't have ignored the first PCNs though - and things are changing in Scotland.*

Nothing is likely to happen but if you get court paperwork then it will have 'Simple Procedure' and 'Sheriffs Court' on it.  To avoid that possibility entirely, just get the retail park to cancel it of course, as is explained clearly as 'PLAN A' in the NEWBIES FAQS thread.




*  Did you know that the law is changing later this year to give your country the horrific 'keeper liability' which will give the parking firms more power?  But you will also get a fair appeals service, same as in England and Wales (not POPLA, not IAS, a new one provided as part of statutory regulation of this rogue industry).  Obviously, law changes are not retrospective.

Fruitcake

Plan A is always to complain to the landowner and your MP. It is never too late to do this.

In Scotland it is safe to ignore a PCN at the moment, but as advised above, it will change in the near future thanks to the actions of your dear leader and her government. 

Collecting multiple PCNs is not a good idea. In Scotland it is unlikely a PPC will attempt court for a single PCN as the system prohibits them from claiming amounts less than £300. Multiple PCNs is much more tempting for these unregulated companies as they will add on fake debt recovery charges to get the total over the £300 threshold. 

Martin_o03

Thanks for all your help. I have since just ignored it but today received another letter threatening court action for the £170

They have also on the letter noted: "Some online sources incorrectly suggest private parking charges do not need to be paid. This is not the case. Details of the Supreme Court ruling that is relevant to your case can be found here:  //www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-judgment.pdf

I've had a brief skim over the supreme court link and from what I can see it concerns England. The debt collection agency are also based in Manchester - 'Debt Recovery Plus'

Are they really attaching a link to a Supreme Court verdict which has no relevance to my case to try and threaten me and fool me into calling and paying this? 

Am I missing something here, would you still say it's best to ignore?

Thank you

fisherjim

Debt recovery plus are dodgy Muppets that how shall we put this...spout rubbish, THEY cannot take anyone to court for a private parking ticket in England let alone Scotland, you are only missing the advice already given, ignore them.

They might send you more letters using the name Zenith same people different headed note paper.

You do not have a fine, and you don't even have a debt they just allege you do.

KeithP

Martin_o03 said:

Am I missing something here, would you still say it's best to ignore?

Keep following the guidance you have already been given about how to deal with debt collectors letters.

You latest letter is no different. It doesn't matter what it says, it is still a debt collectors letter.

Sareck

They are correct , the driver is more than likely liable for the PCN , but not the keeper , because there is no keeper liability in Scotland yet , no POFA , yet !

You need to understand the difference between keeper and driver , POFA is about keeper liability , the letter is talking about driver liability , the latter applying in all devolved nations , so all four nations

Your geographical location matters , because of different laws applying , or not applying , as we have seen with the pandemic rules

Any proper debt collector letter would come from a Scottish solicitor , plus any LBC , followed by a sheriff simple procedure claim


Understanding the process and who may be liable is crucial here , so you are missing a lot

I would be complaining strongly to the retail park management or shops and get the two PCN cancelled

Coupon-mad

I would be complaining strongly to the retail park management or shops and get the two PCN cancelled

Indeed and that was the advice, not to do nothing.