Attic: what actually counts as "a conversion" and what is just "improvement"?

Mark_Michalowski

Yes, twopenny, that seems to be exactly what they're doing. And I genuinely thought they were a really nice couple when they came round to look. I wish I'd gone with someone else, now, but hindsight is always perfect, isn't it? LOL

I've told the estate agent to get it ready to go back on the market if there's been no movement by the end of the week (ie tomorrow).

And yes, they know I'm in a chain - I probably shouldn't have told them, but back when I thought they were genuine, I explained how I'd chosen my new house on the basis of the original £200,000 that they'd offered for mine, and that I'd struggle to buy it if I accepted their (first!) amended offer of £180,000. They know they have me over a barrel, really... Let's hope that they haven't tracked me down to HERE and are reading these comments!!!

Good for you for holding your ground - not sure I'm quite as brave...

Mxx

ashe

You need to decide do you value your money or your move. If they get this off you they may pull another move for something else right before exchange.

Personally I'd say on a house of that age you would have to expect some quirks or remedial work, and there are other buyers interested. They are obviously penny pinching so will not want to lose money on the surveys and solicitor fees that they have spent 

Mark_Michalowski

Yup, that sounds a good summary: money or move...

At the moment, living in a house populated by boxes and chaos and despair, I want the move. But with the ~£15-20k shortfall, it's going to be a real financial struggle; and, petty though I think it is of me, I don't want to see them "get away with it".

Mxx

rob7475

Don't let them bully you into accepting a lower price. It's a sellers market at the moment. They agreed a price based on the condition the house was in at the time of viewing. They should take that viewing as an opportunity to inspect things like the wiring. If they don't know how to have a rough guess at the age of the wiring etc, they should bring someone with them who does.

As others have suggested, call their bluff and tell them the house is going back on the market

Mark_Michalowski

Well, just to keep you kind people all updated, rather than let the thread fizzle out without any conclusion...

My buyers seem to have accepted that the attic has always been habitable. They're still claiming that "the lack of roof insulation" is a problem, except that there is roof insulation, but because the EPC guy couldn't actually see it without cutting holes, he had to put "no insulation" on the EPC. Worth remembering for any future EPC.

The biggest blow has come from the electrical rewire: yes, it needs doing, that's fine. But after my buyers were hassled to contact the company that did the electrical survey for a rewire quotation (the guys that told me "About three and a half grand" as they were leaving the house) they've come back with a staggering EIGHT THOUSAND POUNDS quote - £4,700 for the rewire, £2,000 for replastering after chasing cables into the wall, and £1,340 of VAT on top!!

I rang the guy at the company and he remembered me. I asked how the quote had gone from £3,500 to over £8,000 and there was a lot of umming and vagueness and rounding-up, and then adding the VAT. I do wonder whether the £3,500 quoted to me wasn't a "Yes, we'll actually do it for this price" (probably plus VAT), and the written quote given to my buyers wasn't just a fluffed up figure, knowing that they were going to use it to wrangle down a house price and probably wouldn't care how much it was because they'd get that amount knocked off the cost of the house...

But, fair's fair - I asked my buyers for a quote from the survey company and they provided one.

Their final offer, then, after initially bidding £200,000 on an £180,000 (sale price and mortgage valuation) house was £181,500.

I asked them if they'd compromise and agree on £183,000 - which didn't seem unreasonable. Clearly it was, because they said no.

I could have told them where to go; I could have called their bluff in the hope that it was a bluff; I could have got my own quotes for the rewire and hoped they were less than £8,040 and that my buyers accepted them; I could have gritted my teeth and nodded because of the (slight) chance of losing the house I'm buying and because I'm heartily sick and tired of living amongst cardboard boxes and I just want this to be over.

I'm not proud to say I chose the latter. It's not the best outcome, but it is an outcome.

I'll let you know when we get a date for completion, and if it all goes through in the end.

If you're early in the process with this sort of thing, do not do what I did.

Don't assume that your buyers (or even a seller) are fair-minded, decent individuals who have been open and honest throughout the process. They may well be - if so, great, your purchase/sale will be smoother and less fraught. They also may not be. In which case it could be a nightmare.

If you start to hear alarm bells, however faint, near the start of the process, have some parallel lines in hand (and no, not that sort of parallel lines! LOL). Ask your agent to sound out previous bidders (if there were any) to see how they stand and whether they're still interested. Prepare to get your house back on the market, let your buyers know, and then do it.

If you already know that your house needs, say, electrical or gas work etc, perhaps get a few quotations for the work so that you have something to show buyers and to avoid them stiffing you later with the biggest quote they could find. You can then price your house accordingly, and make that part of the sales pitch - and you'll save time later in the process when everything grinds to a halt for surveys and reports and haggling.

But most of all, if you can avoid it, don't start packing everything up too early

Thanks for all your comments and helpfulness!

Mxx

Doozergirl

Thanks for the update.  It is always good to get an update, not just because of us, but because people will search in the future and read of your full experience. 

Some very wise advice as well on how to approach a sale and choose your buyers.  

phoebe1989seb

Thanks for the update!

I'd agree with your advice to get quotes etc in advance so that you are armed with some ammunition when the buyers start negotiating.

Back in 2011 we about to sell a fairly unique property which we knew had some minor issues with a sunroom roof. Everything else had been fully renovated but we knew a future buyer would most likely replace the sunroom with a proper extension so had left this as it was. Ahead of marketing we informed our chosen EA that we wanted it explained to prospective buyers that the price (a very realistic one - we were getting our purchase price back, but nothing for the works done in the three years we'd owned as prices had generally stagnated/fallen) reflected the condition of the sunroom roof. They told us it shouldn't be mentioned and that this could be discussed at the time of any survey/price negotiations.

As it happened, we accepted an asking price offer within ten days and the surveyor appointed  (full building survey that took 4.5 hours) failed to spot any issues with the sunroom roof...although he did catalogue issues elsewhere that didn't exist 🙄

Fortunately our buyers didn't try to negotiate down, they loved the house and knew it would sell quickly if they withdrew.

But...a few days after completion DH had to return to the house to collect a massive house plant that had belonged to my late grandparents (that we'd been unable to fit in the removal lorry). It was a stormy day and he arrived to find the new owners mopping the sunroom floor as the roof had badly leaked, leaving the whole room under a few cm of water 😮

The sunroom was later replaced by a proper extension!

The moral being, if planning anything like this, it's not necessarily worth discussing with your EA as, chances are, they'll try to talk you out of it!!!