Claiming a Refund of Payment Following Cancellation of PCN By Landowner's Agent

wheeles

patient_dream said:

You mention the BPA, they are only an unregulated trade body who cannot write the laws and their code of practice is meaningless for the motorist.  

Agreed.  They need replacing with an independent regulator with the power to issue licences to operate, fine wrong-doers or strip them of their operating licence.  

The dodgy add-ons is another thing, Whoever accepted the card payment and added an extra charge to the transaction must be reported to Trading Standards as it is illegal.

I will do. I plan to use it as part of the evidence when doing the chargeback, so will contact Trading Standards just before initiating the chargeback.

And you say ... Given that I am after a full refund, 

Hopefully, you will be within the time limits for a chargeback.  I would chargeback for the full amount on the basis that the charge is incorrect.
Whoever took the card will have to respond, what will they say ?  Will they admit that the extra amount is unlawful ?
The banks work with each other and this will send out an alert about the trader. They will normally look back on past transactions for the trader and each bank has the power to terminate them as a merchant.  This meaning they cannot accept card payments

Get on to it, the law is on your side

Don't worry.  I have until 20 April to get the chargeback in process.  I'll start it way before then.  I will chargeback on the grounds that the service charge was cancelled by the agent and that it was also an incorrect amount due to the unlawful add-on fee.

I won't let this lot off the hook.  All I am waiting for now is the landowner's agent to get back to me.  I need to see how that plays out with regards to them getting a refund processed for me.  I also need the deadline I set for the refund in my letter to the PPC to pass.  This will strengthen my hand for a chargeback if they fail to refund.

Coupon-mad

 They need replacing with an independent regulator with the power to issue licences to operate, fine wrong-doers or strip them of their operating licence.

Effectively that is happening this year, albeit the two competing 'race to the bottom' trade bodies will retain a role as long as they also keep to the proposed new rules:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/parking-code-enforcement-framework#full-publication-update-history

More updates must be imminent, as the August consultation is due an updated response and Ministers have replied to Parliamentary questions recently, saying the new Code is being finalised.

There was also a Select Committee in November and the new law and (long overdue) truly independent appeals service is due to start this year, so it must be moving.

wheeles

Coupon-mad said:

Effectively that is happening this year, albeit the two competing 'race to the bottom' trade bodies will retain a role as long as they also keep to the proposed new rules:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/parking-code-enforcement-framework#full-publication-update-history

More updates must be imminent, as the August consultation is due an updated response and Ministers have replied to Parliamentary questions recently, saying the new Code is being finalised.

There was also a Select Committee in November and the new law and (long overdue) truly independent appeals service is due to start this year, so it must be moving.

That's a step in the right direction.  I think that the charges are still a little high in places.  

In the case of my mother, an overstay of a few minutes in a car park which is rarely even a third full so there has been no discernible loss of trade to the shops it serves, should be limited to the equivalent of 1 hour of parking in the nearest paid-for car park plus an admin fee of £10.  For every hour over you get charged the fee for that number of hours plus an admin fee.  While irritated at receiving a charge at that amount, I think the majority of people would simply pay up, chalk it down to experience, and move on with their lives.  It comes down to a simple cost-benefit analysis; the higher the charge, the more likely there will be an appeal.

wheeles

Success!  Well, 97.5% success.  

I've just checked my mother's credit card statement and I see that the sum of £60 has been refunded.  I don't know whether that was put through by the landowner's agents or GroupNexus.  I await written confirmation of the cancellation and refund.  

However, the unlawful admin fee has not been refunded.

I went to the retail car park in question (I didn't park there), and took photos of the signage.  I notice that there is no mention of transaction processing fees on the sign, which is supposed to constitute the contract between landowner and user of the car park.  Would this be considered a hidden charge?  

While business to business transactions can have fees levied dependent on payment method, they are supposed to be up front and clear, and proportionate to the costs incurred.  If that is the case, and there is no mention of them on every other sign in car parks that GroupNexus operate, does this mean that every PCN issued by them since January 2018 has an element that is unlawful?

If that is the case, then feasibly, every PCN that has been paid to them should have these fees refunded.

Personally, I am prepared to write off the £1.50 as it would be the sort of amount that could be payable for 1 hour's parking in a pay-for car park.  For me, this is an acceptable outcome.  I don't want to stick a target on my 84 year old mother's back by kicking up more fuss, yet I believe that something ought to be done about the unlawful payment surcharges.

So, what's next?  Trading Standards?  Writing to my MP about the surcharges?  Do nothing?  I have plenty of other things demanding my time and energy and I've spent more than enough time on this already.

Fruitcake

Whilst the card processing fee might be a hidden term, and therefore not enforceable, it is still unlawful. 
Personally I wouldn't give the PPC a penny. One of these companies once took a motorist to court for an underpayment of 10p.

Stick it to them, I say.

Other opinions are available.

As for the "no discernible loss" idea, that unfortunately went out with the Supreme Court ruling in the infamous Beavis case.

wheeles

Fruitcake said:

Whilst the card processing fee might be a hidden term, and therefore not enforceable, it is still unlawful. 
Personally I wouldn't give the PPC a penny. One of these companies once took a motorist to court for an underpayment of 10p.

Stick it to them, I say.

Other opinions are available.

As for the "no discernible loss" idea, that unfortunately went out with the Supreme Court ruling in the infamous Beavis case.

I completely understand the sentiment.  However, my time and energy are not free.  I might recover £1.50, but at what personal expense?

I am leaning towards the "do nothing" option for the time being, and wait and see whether my mother starts receiving any more demands for payment.  Given that one was sent three weeks after she had paid within the initial 14 days, it would not be unexpected.  If she receives another demand, then I have options open to me.

Coupon-mad

Nicely done!

D_P_Dance

I agree with fruity, gouge every penny you can out of them.  If they are trying to charge a fee for a card payment report them to Trading Standards.  

wheeles

D_P_Dance said:

I agree with fruity, gouge every penny you can out of them.  If they are trying to charge a fee for a card payment report them to Trading Standards.  

If my mother receives another demand, then that's my next step.  I will be able to include harassment too as part of my complaint.  I will also point out the lack of planning permission for the ANPR cameras on that site, and the poor legibility of the signage with a white on pale grey/blue colour scheme.

For now I am going to wait and see what happens.

patient_dream

Good news

Group Nexus live in a little world of their own, very sad.

You know that advert on TV .. "DO IT FOR YORKSHIRE" ? Complaining to Trading Standards could well do it and you will be doing it for everyone  .   This is also where you MP must complain to.

Even rogue traders must obey the law