What cost Hydrogen ?

Ectophile

Robin9 said:

Ectophile said:

Robin9 said:

Ectophile said:

...........  If we're going all-out for wind turbines, then there will be more electricity on a windy day than we know what to do with.  So using it to make hydrogen makes sense..

But what about the storage costs ?   Demand for Hydrogen on a day like today  - cold, no wind, no solar - will be high.

You need a really big high pressure tank.  Weight-for-weight, hydrogen is a great fuel.  But it's so light that 1kg of hydrogen is a huge amount of the stuff.

But isn't it the intention that it comes through the existing pipes ?  Or are you suggestion that we have a pair of cylinders it a kitchen cupboard.

I'm suggesting that hydrogen as a replacement for natural gas in home boilers is probably not going to work.  It only really makes sense when stored at high pressures.

Robin9

@Ectophile I can't see it happening either. My house has some outside space but think of those semis, town houses.

I am actually looking on behalf of my church - 250kW boiler and 200,000 kWh. We have outside space and am thinking deep drive ground source.

Reed_Richards

Robin9 said:

But isn't it the intention that it comes through the existing pipes ?  Or are you suggestion that we have a pair of cylinders it a kitchen cupboard.

I think the pair of cylinders would probably be in an outside shed as far from the house as is practicable - just to be on the safe side.

Elmer_BeFuddled

Reed_Richards said:

I think the pair of cylinders would probably by in an outside shed as far from the house as is practicable - just to be on the safe side.

I'm thinking next door but one neighbours back garden!

y3sitsm3

coffeehound said:

Heard an interesting factoid the other day:  hydrogen is so light that it doesn't stay in the Earth's atmosphere -- it just floats away into space

It's not about how light it is and regardless, it's being combined with oxygen to form H2O if you're burning it, and that isn't so light it "floats away into space."

ccbrowning

What is the pressure if using existing pipes? Will hydrogen embrittlement be an issue?

matelodave

similarly how permeable is the existing plastic gas network to hydrogen compared to natural gas.

Dunno if there have been studies or even if anyone has thought of it. Could end up being a problem in the future if the materials being used aren't up to the job.

I'm not trying to be negative but there are many unforeseen or unintended consequences of decisions made in haste or because a bandwagon has started rolling - consider the rush to diesel to reduce CO2 etc but had the effect of increasing Nitrogen Oxide instead.

coffeehound

y3sitsm3 said:

coffeehound said:

Heard an interesting factoid the other day:  hydrogen is so light that it doesn't stay in the Earth's atmosphere -- it just floats away into space

It's not about how light it is and regardless, it's being combined with oxygen to form H2O if you're burning it, and that isn't so light it "floats away into space."

Not sure I understand your point -- buoyancy (and diffusivity) is very much relevant to how a combustible mixture could be formed.  Or are you suggesting that H2 can't exist independently?

coffeehound

It looks like Scotland is going for a major project to supply commercial premises in Glasgow with H2 from a windfarm

The Energy Innovation Portfolio funding is for a 10MW electrolyser and associated four tonnes of storage, and is the first phase in the development of the 20MW facility, for which a planning application was submitted on 12 April 2021, to be sited at Whitelee Wind Farm near Glasgow, the UK’s largest onshore wind farm. The project forms part of the recently announced contracts backlog (in negotiation) for ITM Power.

The project is designed to provide carbon-free transport and clean air for communities across the city and wider central belt region, with Glasgow aiming to become the first net-zero city in the UK by 2030. The facility aims to supply hydrogen to the commercial market by the end of 2023.

https://itm-power.com/news/uk-government-investment-secured-for-whitelee-windfarm-green-hydrogen-phase-1

Ectophile

Back in the days of town gas, nobody worried about embrittlement, even though that contained lots of hydrogen (as well as carbon monoxide).

Maybe there were enough tarry fumes in it to keep the pipes sealed.