Heathrow T5 Drop off Zone APCOA Parking

stonechat

Thank you, coupon-mad.   I've actually started on the letter, with your template, but will cut it down. 

 Apcoa did include two time-stamped photos of the car on entry and exit, which shows it took just over a minute to travel through the zone, which had numerous speed bumps. 

But I note your advice about over-thinking!  As I understand your notes, if they don't know who's driving, they can't really pursue it.  And, as we never parked, there was no contract.  I have also looked at the heathrow parking terms and conditions (can't post link yet)

where it talks about "entering" but also "using" drop off zones.

So: reply as the registered keeper, using the template sentences; and I'm going to add:

"There was no contravention of the use of the Drop Off Zone.

The car was not parked nor did it stop within the drop off zone, so there was no contract with Apcoa Parking.  Apcoa's own time stamped photos are evidence.  The driver had meet and greet booked for that time.  "

and that's it really. 

Coupon-mad

What about 'non-POFA innit'? The winning words!

stonechat

Hi, thank you for your prompt reply, I'm not always online. 

I've read para 9 and it does appear that the notice follows the list of points in the para.  However, it repeatedly talks about "parking" - which didn't happen. 

I will quote that as well anyway:   "your notice does not comply with POFA 2012 para 9"  Not sure how though; is it because the land is "not relevent" because of the airport by-laws?  Even if Apcoa is acting on behalf of Heathrow? 

On a more general note, the roads around there are a nightmare; many turnings, one-way systems, heavy traffic, some traffic travelling very fast, no opportunity to change lanes safely and so on.  We were trying to find a new car park (Purple at Sofitel) and totally missed their tiny sign, in spite of equipping ourselves with maps etc.  We also saw many obviously confused drivers when we were leaving.  I reckon we weren't the only ones. 

Umkomaas

I will quote that as well anyway:   "your notice does not comply with POFA 2012 para 9"  Not sure how though; is it because the land is "not relevent" because of the airport by-laws?  Even if Apcoa is acting on behalf of Heathrow?  

Use both those points - APCOA never issue PoFA compliant notices, and the fact that byelaws apply at Heathrow, that's a double-whammy. Just construct a couple of sentences to reflect the above and tag them on to the basic, blue text initial appeal template from the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, first post.

If you want us to run over the additions you're putting in, let's see them. Please, no need to copy and paste the template appeal - we've already seen it at least a zillion times!

stonechat

thank you Umkomass, I've got to dash out now, but will be back on this later today.

stonechat

Draft appeal to Apcoa Parking at Heathrow T5

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle.  I deny any liability or contractual agreement.

I will also complain to Heathrow Airport Ltd.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.  Your PCN gives no explanation or evidence of dropping off or parking.   
 
Your notice does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), section 12 paragraph 9.   

PoFA refers to “parking” throughout; the vehicle was never parked.

The airport bye-laws apply to these roads, so again, your notice does not comply with PoFA 2012.  [question – is it enough to simply make this statement?  What would be the justification?]

There was no contravention of the use of the Drop Off Zone.

There was no contract with Apcoa or Heathrow because the vehicle was not parked nor did it stop within the drop off zone.

 

By your own admission, in the two photos in the PCN, the car entered the Drop Off Zone at hh:17:58 on xx June 2022; it left the zone at hh:19:09 on xx June 2022.  Thus a journey of 1 minute and 11 seconds, travelling slower than the 20mph speed limit because of speed bumps and busy traffic conditions.

[I'm mindful that this is a publicly available forum, so I've blanked out some time & date details]

Therefore, there was clearly no time to stop or park or drop anyone off.  Neither was there time nor opportunity to study the terms and conditions of use of the drop off zone.

There was no safe or legal means of turning round or exiting the road before entering the zone.  There are extensive one-way systems around the parking area, with many turn-offs very close together.  The traffic is heavy and many vehicles travel fast.   It is extremely difficult and even dangerous to change lane or direction quickly.

The driver was seeking the Purple Parking meet and greet service nearby. 

ENDS

What do you think?

Jenni_D

Ref. bylaws ... land where they apply is not relevant land in respect of PoFA.

The airport bye-laws apply to these roads, so again, your notice does not comply with PoFA 2012 as it is not relevant land.

Grizebeck

Remove anything about the events on the day. Wholly irrelevant and does not sit a with a NKL /Non POFA appeal.

Coupon-mad

I agree.

This is a cinch to win.  As per the thread by @flyebye

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6328488/apcoa-heathrow-drop-off-pcn#latest

You could literally say:

'I am the keeper.  Your NTK is non POFA.  You have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel it.'

I've read para 9 and it does appear that the notice follows the list of points in the para.

Given APCOA have never, ever used compliant POFA para 9 wording (not at all - they deliberately avoid it) and they make ZERO attempt to hold any keeper liable at any site, I'm amazed to read this.

Look at 9(2)f for starters.

stonechat

ok, I've slimmed it down with all your advice.  I have to say this is new territory for me! Coupon, I found flyebye's thread. 

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle.  I deny any liability or contractual agreement.

There will be no admission as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.  Your PCN gives no explanation or evidence of dropping off or parking.   
 
Your notice does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).   

PoFA refers to “parking” throughout; the vehicle was never parked.

There was no contravention of the use of the Drop Off Zone.

There was no contract with Apcoa or Heathrow because the vehicle was not parked nor did it stop within the drop off zone.

ends