Electricity costs going up but why is SEG staying so low?

2nd_time_buyer

JKenH said:

While domestically generated solar is useful to the individual householder, its commercial value to me seems limited - unless of course it is linked to storage. As has already been pointed out peak output is in the 4-6 hours either side of midday in summer when there is so darn much of the stuff that it is worth very little. 

I am not sure I agree. The total installed solar capacity is dwarfed by installed wind. Wind also tends to be less strong in the summer. Wind is set to take an even greater proportion of the share in energy with the gap between installed capacity of wind and solar set to grow.

If you look at the National energy demand yesterday between 9am and 4pm (typical solar generation hours) it was around 43-45 GW. Whilst the demand between 4 and 8 ("peak" hours) was between 45 and 47 GW. So really not that much difference. 

https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/fourtyeight

Things will be a bit different in the summer but I would not be surprised to see an increase in demand during the summer as people begin to install air-to-air heat pumps (air cons).

I agree on windy summer days, the value of solar will be less. But conversely on windless days the value will be much greater.

I think we will be moving into a time where there is a lot more variability in energy prices.

JKenH

Cranberryberry said:

JKenH said:

Until we have widespread adoption of half hourly TOU pricing for domestic and business customers we just can’t use the solar generation effectively so much of the time the solar generation is actually a nuisance to the electricity generation and distribution industry, hence the negative pricing we see. 

If this is the case, and I’m sure it is, why aren’t batteries more strongly pushed by energy companies? 

It may vary from one DNO to another but when I enquired about adding a battery the DNO looked at the theoretical export potential of my solar panels to that of the proposed battery and said no. I live in a rural area and the DNO was concerned my export potential would be too much for the local network. The fact that I am unlikely to be exporting from my battery when my panels are at max output passed them by. 

Verdigris

You can put batteries on the DC side without it troubling the DNO. The round-trip losses are fewer, too, although it limits you to own-use rather than export for SEG (apart from your 3.68kW from the panels.

JKenH

Verdigris said:

You can put batteries on the DC side without it troubling the DNO. The round-trip losses are fewer, too, although it limits you to own-use rather than export for SEG (apart from your 3.68kW from the panels.

Thanks. I had only been offered AC batteries, perhaps because I receive FiT payments which I believe could be adversely affected by a battery on the DC side. My FiT and 50% deemed export are worth around 7p/kWh to me.

Spies

I averaged 24p/kwh export on my last Octopus bill, before utility point went under I enquired with them what their SEG rate was and they offered 0.001p/kwh!

Verdigris

perhaps because I receive FiT payments which I believe could be adversely affected by a battery on the DC side.

I'd forgotten about FiT. I was talking to somebody about a post-FiT installation larger than the usual G98 array.

michaels

QrizB said:

2nd_time_buyer said:

The market should appreciate that and pay you close to the import rate for exporting. Octopus are doing this with their Agile export. Which today for instance has been paying me around 20p per kWh.

That is how it works in some US states; it's known as net metering.

There was a decision taken by the UK Govt more than a decade ago that net metering wasn't for the UK. Instead they chose FITs and, more recently, SEG (for large-scale it was ROO then CfD). I can't imagine them changing tack now.

Wouldn't net metering be somewhat different in that your excess solar at 1pm when wholesale prices are 5p/unit would offset your usage at 6pm when wholesale prices were 25p/unit.  I can see why this was not considered fair.

drrdwhite

Cranberryberry said:

Perhaps the simple answer to this question is 'greed' on behalf of the energy companies but given the massive growth in electricity prices driven by underlying gas costs, why isn't the SEG rate for domestic production going up?

Surely buying at a (maximum) of 5p/kWh and being able to 'sell' on at the wholesale price is netting the energy companies bucketloads across the country. If one provider shifted even a little (8p, say) then wouldn't there be a big shift in SEG sign ups, allowing that company to clean up.

Have I missed something here? SEG is a bit niche perhaps - and many lucky people still have feed in tariffs - and doesn't seem to be overseen by Ofgem.

The SEG was implemented on 1 January 2020.

Smart Export Guarantee

 The Smart Export Guarantee (SEG) is a necessary step decided by the government after the end of the Feed-in-Tariff. This applies to all new applicants from April 2019.

The SEG is mandatory for all licensed electricity suppliers. With the end of the Feed-in Tariff, the government has requested energy suppliers to provide small-scale low carbon heating generators with financial support. The SEG enables these generators to receive payments for the extra energy they export back to the grid.

• The Current export tariff is between 1.5p – 5 p / kWh that is being given to the small scale generators.
• So my export then goes to my neighbour and he pays 21p/kwh this does look like to be very unethical.

• The cost of my energy intake tariff from  Electricity Supplier is 21p /kwh,

 The energy suppliers were asked to offer a price to the Government which they did – AN EXTREMELY LOW ONE.

Now with energy prices increasing further say 30p/kWh the disparity between the cost of supplying as a small scale generator and the cost of energy from the grid is set to increase even further.

THIS IS UNETHICAL – what can we do to stop it – the suggestion is that we all go with one company forcing all others to Increase their rate.  I get little response from MPs so If the government wants Green energy why should it not be the same price as that from the GRID. 

QrizB

drrdwhite said:

If the government wants Green energy why should it not be the same price as that from the GRID. 

For all the usual reasons.

The best you can expect is for the export tariff to match the wholesale price - exactly as Octopus do with Outging Agile.

JKenH

drrdwhite said:

Cranberryberry said:

Perhaps the simple answer to this question is 'greed' on behalf of the energy companies but given the massive growth in electricity prices driven by underlying gas costs, why isn't the SEG rate for domestic production going up?

Surely buying at a (maximum) of 5p/kWh and being able to 'sell' on at the wholesale price is netting the energy companies bucketloads across the country. If one provider shifted even a little (8p, say) then wouldn't there be a big shift in SEG sign ups, allowing that company to clean up.

Have I missed something here? SEG is a bit niche perhaps - and many lucky people still have feed in tariffs - and doesn't seem to be overseen by Ofgem.

The SEG was implemented on 1 January 2020.

Smart Export Guarantee

 The Smart Export Guarantee (SEG) is a necessary step decided by the government after the end of the Feed-in-Tariff. This applies to all new applicants from April 2019.

The SEG is mandatory for all licensed electricity suppliers. With the end of the Feed-in Tariff, the government has requested energy suppliers to provide small-scale low carbon heating generators with financial support. The SEG enables these generators to receive payments for the extra energy they export back to the grid.

• The Current export tariff is between 1.5p – 5 p / kWh that is being given to the small scale generators.
• So my export then goes to my neighbour and he pays 21p/kwh this does look like to be very unethical.

• The cost of my energy intake tariff from  Electricity Supplier is 21p /kwh,

 The energy suppliers were asked to offer a price to the Government which they did – AN EXTREMELY LOW ONE.

Now with energy prices increasing further say 30p/kWh the disparity between the cost of supplying as a small scale generator and the cost of energy from the grid is set to increase even further.

THIS IS UNETHICAL – what can we do to stop it – the suggestion is that we all go with one company forcing all others to Increase their rate.  I get little response from MPs so If the government wants Green energy why should it not be the same price as that from the GRID. 

It’s not unethical at all. You want to sell your surplus electricity because you don’t need it. When is that? Most of the time it is when the sun is shining in summer and there is plenty of electricity in the system. Commercial solar farms and solar panels on roofs all over the country are producing GW of the stuff. Consequently it is worth very little or at times your contribution is a positive nuisance to the grid. At times like this wholesale electricity prices can go negative and we get the situation where consumers are even paid to take the electricity from the grid. 

Yes your neighbour may still be paying 21p/kWh when you are exporting but he would also have being paying the same amount for an hour or two around 6pm last night when you weren’t exporting and the spot wholesale price was over £4/kWh. 

If you are prepared to accept the vagaries of electricity pricing then there is a simple solution for you and that is to take a variable export tariff,such as Agile Outgoing which will pay you a variable rate linked to the wholesale market. You won’t get paid much in the summertime though when the sun is shining and you actually have spare generation, but last night around 6pm you would have earned around £1.30/kWh.