PCN from Brittania parking believed not POFA compliant

Glennyboyy

@Coupon-mad I already submitted my appeal to Britannia last week and kept it brief saying the NtK was non-compliant with POFA mandatory requirements, and left it at that. Didn’t want to get into the weeds with them in case they suddenly sent out something else covering points I may have added more detail about.
So….I will include the above about the EV stuff in my POPLA appeal once I receive the POPLA appeal number from Britannia.

After this is resolved (hopefully in my favour) I will then put forward my complaint to the Store manager about the EV charge points and the lack of anything additional around the availability and potential for PCN. Surely there is a ‘fair assumption’ that the chargers can be used outside of store opening times where you cannot be regarded as a customer with the store being closed, when the chargers are available to use in the same manner as if the store is open. e.g no coning; switched on; App shows available to use; barrier up; no mention of EV charging on T&C’s etc

In relation to the ‘too late for keeper liability’ I can certainly state I didn’t receive the NtK’s until after 14 days in the POPLA appeal (which I certainly didn’t) but would it be for me to ‘prove’ this was the case(?) or for Britannia to ‘prove’ they were delivered on time? I appreciate from your earlier comments this isn’t needed, due to lack of POFA compliance on the NtK, but thought I’d mention it based on your last comment. Thanks.

Coupon-mad

No it's not for you to prove and the date received is an aside really, no more than icing on the cake.  Who cares when the wording is non POFA anyway!

Glennyboyy

Ok - so I have an update following my appeal to Britannia, where I purely said that ‘the PCN had not been issued in accordance with mandatory requirements under POFA compliance. And that the PCN had not been delivered within 14 days even giving the opportunity for paying the reduced PCN fee’. I obviously did not disclose the driver details.

The following is part of their reply, as they quoted a few other bits about signage and their BPA compliance (which I’d not even mentioned).

It is not a requirement that we must notify you of your Parking Charge Notice within 14 days. This only applies if we refer to the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 when we issue a Parking Charge Notice. As we did not, we have 35 days in which we may notify you of the Parking Charge Notice.

Therefore we consider the Parking Charge Notice to be valid and correctly issued.

Having considered the content of your letter and our internal review, as this is your first Parking Charge Notice appeal, we are prepared to cancel the notice; with the understanding that you will not continue to breach the terms and conditions; as you are now aware of the maximum stay time permitted for this car park. I had an email reply to the first PCN which contained (amongst other comments) the following:-

It is not a requirement that we must notify you of your Parking Charge Notice within 14 days. This only applies if we refer to the Keeper Liability provisions in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 when we issue a Parking Charge Notice. As we did not, we have 35 days in which we may notify you of the Parking Charge Notice.

And then right at the end of the email, the following:-

Therefore we consider the Parking Charge Notice to be valid and correctly issued.

Having considered the content of your letter (literally what I wrote above & that the PCN hadn’t been delivered to me within 14 days) and our internal review, as this is your first Parking Charge Notice appeal, we are prepared to cancel the notice; with the understanding that you will not continue to breach the terms and conditions; as you are now aware of the maximum stay time permitted for this car park.

The email for the 2nd PCN contained exactly the same wording, except the ending removed ‘as this is your first Parking Charge Notice appeal’…….

My feeling on this personally, based on what I’ve learnt so far from this forum, is that Brittania know they are not POFA compliant and can’t be bothered taking this further. The same applies to the second response.
————————————————————————————————————————

Whats funny 😆 is that the same day I get these replies, I receive 2 more PCN’s through the post due to my parking at the same location to charge my car on New Years Eve & New Years Day!
And before anyone judges me, the original 2 PCN’s hadn’t even been opened by myself by the above dates (NYE & NYD) so I wasn’t even aware of Brittania’s intentions, otherwise I clearly would’ve made sure I didn’t overstay my parking time again.

The latest 2 PCN’s contain EXACTLY THE SAME wording as the original 2, so again are not POFA compliant.
I will of course appeal these 2 new PCN’s in the same way using the same terms (minus the 14 day delivery claim) and see what Britannia come back with this time.

After this is all done, I will make contact with the Store manager about the parking/EV charging situation as it’s no good.

Umkomaas

Good outcomes on the first two.  Have you read this thread, another Waitrose customer being harassed by a Britannia weasel. This is going to cause Waitrose a headache with a goon going rogue making up his own rules around the car park.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6326797/britannia-waitrose-electric-car-and-blue-badge#latest

D_P_Dance

Read this

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/4-383-2653?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

Coupon-mad

as this is your first Parking Charge Notice appeal, we are prepared to cancel the notice; with the understanding that you will not continue to breach the terms and conditions; as you are now aware of the maximum stay time permitted for this car park.

Do you mean the first two are cancelled or just the first one?

All are winnable at POPLA anyway!

Glennyboyy

D_P_Dance said:

Read this

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/4-383-2653?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

@D_P_Dance thank you. What I take from that, is that if there’s any ambiguity in the contract wording then the law shall side with the customer/user rather than the person/company trying to enforce their contract. Yeah?
Presumably Brittania knowing POPLA would side with the the customer due to the wording of their T&C’s ?

KeithP

Glennyboyy said:

D_P_Dance said:

Read this

https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/4-383-2653?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

What I take from that, is that if there’s any ambiguity in the contract wording then the law shall side with the customer/user rather than the person/company trying to enforce their contract. Yeah?

...and that is also spelt out in Section 69 of The Consumer Rights Act 2015:

69 Contract terms that may have different meanings
(1) If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail.

Glennyboyy

Umkomaas said:

Good outcomes on the first two.  Have you read this thread, another Waitrose customer being harassed by a Britannia weasel. This is going to cause Waitrose a headache with a goon going rogue making up his own rules around the car park.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6326797/britannia-waitrose-electric-car-and-blue-badge#latest

@Umkomaas thank you. You and others on here really instilled the confidence to take them further and not pay, somi really appreciate all the help and guidance. This forum is a keeper for sure!

And yes I saw that other thread indeed.
I can confirm it’s a totally different Waitrose as the one I use only has ANPR after they did away with parking wardens who used to walk around literally taking images of vehicle index plates and keeping an eye on their watches for overstayers!
Yes I can imagine some store managers getting headaches.
Whats strange about the one I use is that I have been parking in that car park for the past 18-24 months outside of shop opening hours when I use the EV charger, and have NEVER had a PCN/NTK at any time up until recently. I can’t see why Brittania would suddenly start issuing PCN’s off their own back when they never have staff patrolling, but also can’t see why the GM might have told them to start enforcing it either due to the parking area always being empty after hours (other than staff staying/coming in to restock the shelves).
I suppose I might find out once I’ve got these 2 new PCN’s out of the way and contact the GM myself.

Glennyboyy

Coupon-mad said:

as this is your first Parking Charge Notice appeal, we are prepared to cancel the notice; with the understanding that you will not continue to breach the terms and conditions; as you are now aware of the maximum stay time permitted for this car park.

Do you mean the first two are cancelled or just the first one?

All are winnable at POPLA anyway!

The first 2 we’re cancelled! Number 1 reply was that it was cancelled as it was my first appeal and now I should understand the parking requirements.

And number 2 was cancelled because they decided it was! They gave no reason but said cancelled after reviewing my appeal.