Double glazing small claims court (against me)

R088IE

Hello, this is my first time posting on the MSE messag board, I hope I’ve come to the right section (apologies if not). I need some advice.

A bit so brief(ish) backstory-

In August 2020 I had a local (and very reputable) double glazing firm supply me with a quote to replace my windows and doors. 

When I received the quote it was a lot of money, 11k, but comparing it to other quotes it was pretty good, and though money was reasonably tight, it was just about doable. 

In April 2021, I visited the business’s showroom to view the display windows, discuss possible cheaper alternatives and talk about various options (finishes and colours etc.) However, due to the 8 month period between receiving the original quote and the unforeseen material supply issues caused by the pandemic at the time meant that the prices would need to be slightly revised. 

While I was there arrangements were made for their surveyor to visit my house to measure the existing windows and doors. Which did happen a couple of weeks later. 

Unfortunately in the following months after my circumstances changed and things were a little bit more precarious financially. So decided to put things on hold. 

Fast forward to December the 2nd, I was sent an invoice charging me £250 for the survey. Which I was totally shocked by, because at no point before or during my visit was I made aware of any chargeable surveyor fees, irrespective of any potential order placed or not. 

Rightly or wrongly I chose to ignore it. On the 22nd of December I received another letter, stating if they didn’t receive payment by January the 14th I would be taken to the small claims court. 

I’ve since had a couple of email exchanges with the company owner. He does seem pretty confident that I owe him this money. 

Can someone knowledgeable please give me their opinion. I will post emails exchanges below.

Thank you in advance!

R088IE

This was my email response to receiving the letter threatening legal action-

I am writing to you in response of your letter dated 22nd of December 2021. Until recently I was not aware of any fees due to [company name here]

Your invoice states there is a report, I am advising you that I have never been in receipt of this or seen it. Could you please provide me with the following information so I can conclude this matter.

1. ⁠Was a contract/agreement made?

2. ⁠If so, who were the parties to the agreement?

3. ⁠What form did any agreement take, ie verbal or written? And when?

4. ⁠What is the content of this contract/agreement?

5. ⁠How did you make me aware of any contract/agreement?

This was his reply to that-

You called into our showroom on the 1-4-2021 to look at the sash window, at this time you said you would like to go ahead with the windows and doors, you were not sure if you were going to have all in one go or in stages, you also were not sure if you wanted a Bi fold door or French doors, as far as I was concerned this was an order, we agreed to send out the surveyor to meet you on site and for him to send you a copy of the surveyors report so you could confirm which one you require and to discuss the opening size with the builder, this was emailed to you on the 25-4-2021 at 13.25 and 48 seconds, you have totally ignored numerous calls, texts and emails from me and my surveyor to discuss this order, it stands in business if you place an order verbally or in writing you are responsible for any costs incurred, I have only charged you for my surveyors time and not for any admin costs I have incurred, I will forward a replacement copy of the surveyors report on full payment, If I do not receive full payment by the 14-1-22 I will claim the outstanding amount through the small claims court.

R088IE

This is my as of yet unsent draft-

It’s clear that we have similar recollections of my visit to your showroom, but I have a different understanding in respect of any contract being entered into. While I was there no order was placed, as I wasn’t in the position to place an order at that time without having made any decisions about what I wished to purchase. We were still at the ‘consideration for supply’ stage of the process. At no point was I made aware of any cost, agreement, terms & conditions or clause written or otherwise stating there was a chargeable surveyor fee, irrespective of any potential order placed or not. Therefore no payment is due, and I am under no legal obligations. 

Your own website states- “If you would like a free quotation or a survey for your home”

What are your thoughts?

user1977

What you've said sounds fine. Up to them to demonstrate there was actually a contract formed (whether for the windows in general or merely to pay for the survey).

Jenni_D

Agree with the above - no contract thus no obligation. Take a screen grab of their website where it shows about the free quotation or survey - that will be good evidence in the (very) unlikely event that they proceed with a claim.

PS - if they're trying to nickel and dime you now, just think what they would be like if you had actually proceeded. I think this serves as a good warning that you may have had a lucky escape.

R088IE

Yeah, I definitely thought it was a job done when I saw that on their website, but the more I read it, the more I thought the wording was a bit ambiguous “free quote or a survey”, not “free quote & survey”

In fairness I don’t think he’s a chancer, as I said the company is a very reputable one. If anything I would say he’s anal, boarder line petty. 

Jenni_D

The way it is written is ambiguous ... and established legal principle (contra proferentem) says that any ambiguity should benefit the party that did not write the term. So don't worry about that - it is all in your favour.  

R088IE

Very insightful! Thanks Jenni

pinkshoes

I agree that you do not owe any money as no contract was formed. 

I would put in your reply that you called into their showroom on 01 April 2021 and you were informed that due to increases in material prices, they were now unable to honour their original quote from August 2020, so it was arranged that someone would come to your house to talk you through the options and re-quote.

On X date someone came to the house to discuss the options, but unfortunately the new prices offered were not comparable to the original quote so you did not place an order. 

I would then direct them back to their own website about a free quote.

You could then be cheeky and state that if they are able to meet the original quoted price of £11k, then you would be happy to go ahead with the work, although I'm not sure I'd want the work done by them!

R088IE

Let’s say just for arguments sake, I do go ahead and send that reply, and he’s not bluffing and does decide to take legal action. What actually happens next? How is evidence collected? Are these email exchanges submitted? If I lose would I be landed with a hefty legal bill?

Jenni_D

If he did actually file a claim then you'll receive a copy of the claim from the court via post, the claim including details of how to login to MCOL (Money Claim Online).

You wait 5 days or so (after the claim filing date) and then do the Acknowledgment of Service via MCOL. ALL you do is acknowledge the claim - you DO NOT put ANYTHING in the Defence box on MCOL - NOTHING AT ALL! (Anything you enter there is taken as your entire defence). Once you've done the AoS then this gives you a prescribed period* within which to create and file your defence with MCOL (by email). Once you've done the AoS then the MCOL site should be treated as read-only to check filing history.

You can get a good guide to the court process by looking at the NEWBIES FAQ thread in the Parking board here at MSE Forums.

The maximum amount of the claim would be the claimed amount £250) plus claim filing fee (£35) plus claim hearing fee (£35), plus any expenses the claimant may incur to attend a hearing. (Although most hearings are remote by phone or online so hearing expenses are rarely awarded at the moment). That quantifies what you may be liable for in the remote situation that he files a claim AND he wins the claim. I suspect it is bluff and bluster and he won't risk a claim as it would be additional money down the drain (at least £70).

* You get up to 4 weeks after AoS to file a defence. If you wait 5+ days (5 days is the time period to allow for serving) to do the AoS, but make sure it is less than 14 days, then you get a total of 33 days from the claim filing date (which will be on the claim form) to file your defence. As an example:

Claim filing date: 14-Jan-22
You do the AoS: 20-Jan-22
You have until 4pm on Wednesday 16-Feb-22 to file your defence by email to the CCBC