Advice on installing outdoor plug

Bendy_House

Hi MG.
Is your proposed lighting system the 'Hue' from Philips? If so, the cables you linked to would seem ideal, and - being (extra) low voltage - should be safe wherever you run it. 
Burying it would certainly be neater, but also more awkward should it stop working for any reason...
Anyhoo, if burying, I think what I would do is first wipe a good dollop of silicone GREASE into the connectors before tightening them up. Then I'd wrap amalgamating tape over the joints and possibly over the whole fitting. That should last.

Section62

Money_Grabber13579 said:

This is the cable and connector type which I will be using, so I was thinking of buying some kind of waterproof box which could be placed underground and run the cables into the box via some kind of grommet.  The connector would then be wholly inside the waterproof box and thus, hopefully fully protected (I know the cable and connector is supposed to be IP67 rated but given the heavy clay nature of the soil, I'm a little concerned that flooding of the soil might overcome this).

I don't think this will work - to achieve a watertight entry into a joint box, you need to use an entry gland which seals tightly to the cable.  E.g. like this one, which uses compression to make the rubber washer form a seal -

https://www.toolstation.com/imo-stag-ip68-cable-gland/p81780

The difficulty you'll have is the Hue cables are supplied with pre-fitted plugs/sockets.  These are quite a large diameter - meaning you'd need a gland with a large enough diameter for the plug/socket to pass through.  There's then a very good chance you won't be able to achieve a tight seal against the much smaller diameter cable - you'll almost certainly have to resort to some kind of bodge to make a sufficiently large dia gland work effectively with such a small cable.

I think you might be better off with the joints made in non-waterproof boxes, but using a waterproof potting compound to keep the water out of the joint.  Chosing the right potting compound (compatible with the materials used in both the plug/socket and cable) is going to need some research.... TBH I think it would be easier/better to keep the cable above ground, but protect it from mechanical damage using some plastic conduit (or similar).

Note that there's a big difference between joining very low voltage DC cables outdoors and ones carrying mains voltages - for other people reading this thread it needs to be clear that you are talking about burying/joining a low voltage cable, not a mains one.  I wouldn't advise anyone to attempt a DIY mains cable joint which will be underground, that is a job for a suitably qualified and experienced professional.

ashe

Emmia said:

Can I ask, would solar powered lights be suitable for your needs? This seems like an overly complicated arrangement overall, and you could position them where you like.

Personally, if you want mains electricity I'd get a proper outdoor plug socket fitted, rather than these bodges with cables under lawns, flowerbeds etc.

I'm not the OP, however solar lights would rarely be suitable vs LV lighting. My partner must have spent a fortune over the years trying every solar light going and hardly any have lasted a year without failing or filling with water, and they're a chocolate fireguard over winter. False economy in my view as over the period of time you would have low voltage lights, you would end up buying many more solar lights

Risteard

Andy_L said:

dil1976 said:

grumbler said:

dil1976 said:

grumbler said:

dil1976 said:

Sorry but of you ar having to ask how to install it then I would advise you get a suitably to install one for you.

Really?

All people have to ask, read of both at some point, even a 'competent electrician' weren't burn 'competent'.  And adding a spur socket is a very simple job, especially if it's with a plug.

Really? So I take it that everyone has access to the correct test equipment and the knowledge to fill out a test certificate correctly and able to identify that that the circuit they are spurring from is suitable?

The OP's plan was just to make a RCD-protected DIY extension lead going through a hole in a wall instead of a door/window. Does a DIY extension lead require a certificate?

I can be wrong, but I don't think that a CERTIFICATE is required nowadays for a new socket. AFAIK, notification is required only for some special locations that don't include an outdoor socket.

And what is 'suitable circuite'? For and outdoor socket, AFAIK, It has to be RCD-protected and not an unfused spur. What else?

All electrical installation work requires a test certificate to show it complies with BS7671 or the PAT Code of Practice. Notification I am not sure of it does or not but that isnt really a big issue even if it does require it but that's another conversation. If being hard wired into a existing socket how with out knowledge or relevant test equipment can you tell if it safe to do so as that may already be a spur in which case further works needs carrying out or you may overload the cable. 

An extra socket like this work is modification not installation so only needs a test cert if its in a special location (eg bathroom or sauna)

Any alteration to an existing circuit requires a Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate actually.

Money_Grabber13579

Bendy_House said:

Hi MG.
Is your proposed lighting system the 'Hue' from Philips? If so, the cables you linked to would seem ideal, and - being (extra) low voltage - should be safe wherever you run it. 
Burying it would certainly be neater, but also more awkward should it stop working for any reason...
Anyhoo, if burying, I think what I would do is first wipe a good dollop of silicone GREASE into the connectors before tightening them up. Then I'd wrap amalgamating tape over the joints and possibly over the whole fitting. That should last.

Thanks, yes, it is indeed some of the Philips Hue low voltage outdoor lights which I’m planning on installing (I bought them on Black Friday last year with 25% off I think but they’re now almost twice the price! 😮).

That’s a good point about accessing the cables if anything every goes wrong…I was considering burying them in the lawn as I would be less likely to start digging in the lawn, but at the same time, I don’t want to have to keep digging up the lawn if the need arises. I’ll give that some more thought and see whether neatness or practicality wins out! I’ll follow the tip of the silicone grease regardless though, as my experience is that water has a habit of getting into anything, no matter how water proof it is supposed to be.

Money_Grabber13579

Section62 said:

Money_Grabber13579 said:

This is the cable and connector type which I will be using, so I was thinking of buying some kind of waterproof box which could be placed underground and run the cables into the box via some kind of grommet.  The connector would then be wholly inside the waterproof box and thus, hopefully fully protected (I know the cable and connector is supposed to be IP67 rated but given the heavy clay nature of the soil, I'm a little concerned that flooding of the soil might overcome this).

I don't think this will work - to achieve a watertight entry into a joint box, you need to use an entry gland which seals tightly to the cable.  E.g. like this one, which uses compression to make the rubber washer form a seal -

https://www.toolstation.com/imo-stag-ip68-cable-gland/p81780

The difficulty you'll have is the Hue cables are supplied with pre-fitted plugs/sockets.  These are quite a large diameter - meaning you'd need a gland with a large enough diameter for the plug/socket to pass through.  There's then a very good chance you won't be able to achieve a tight seal against the much smaller diameter cable - you'll almost certainly have to resort to some kind of bodge to make a sufficiently large dia gland work effectively with such a small cable.

I think you might be better off with the joints made in non-waterproof boxes, but using a waterproof potting compound to keep the water out of the joint.  Chosing the right potting compound (compatible with the materials used in both the plug/socket and cable) is going to need some research.... TBH I think it would be easier/better to keep the cable above ground, but protect it from mechanical damage using some plastic conduit (or similar).

Note that there's a big difference between joining very low voltage DC cables outdoors and ones carrying mains voltages - for other people reading this thread it needs to be clear that you are talking about burying/joining a low voltage cable, not a mains one.  I wouldn't advise anyone to attempt a DIY mains cable joint which will be underground, that is a job for a suitably qualified and experienced professional.

Thanks, based on your comments, it is sounding like it would be much easier to keep the cable above the ground, with it running around the edge of the garden and then just run the short section underground from the edge of the garden to the light, perhaps protected by some kind of conduit (the lights will be be fixed to small paving slabs which will be placed in a flowerbed and so my preference is not to have cables running through the middle of the flowerbed above ground).

And yes, absolutely agree with your comments on mains voltage cables; I have no desire to have a mains voltage cable which will be permanently switched on running through a flowerbed where there would be any risk whatsoever of slicing through it, so anything which is underground or near to ground level will be low voltage.

Money_Grabber13579

ashe said:

Emmia said:

Can I ask, would solar powered lights be suitable for your needs? This seems like an overly complicated arrangement overall, and you could position them where you like.

Personally, if you want mains electricity I'd get a proper outdoor plug socket fitted, rather than these bodges with cables under lawns, flowerbeds etc.

I'm not the OP, however solar lights would rarely be suitable vs LV lighting. My partner must have spent a fortune over the years trying every solar light going and hardly any have lasted a year without failing or filling with water, and they're a chocolate fireguard over winter. False economy in my view as over the period of time you would have low voltage lights, you would end up buying many more solar lights

Absolutely, any solar powered lights I’ve seen have always been a bit pathetic in that they are only powerful enough to light about 3cm around them (maybe slight exaggeration). I’m looking for something that will be reliable and bright all year round and solar powered lights are neither reliable or bright.  As you say, they just don’t seem to last, with the majority of any around me that were put in last summer having seemingly given up already.

ashe

Money_Grabber13579 said:

ashe said:

Emmia said:

Can I ask, would solar powered lights be suitable for your needs? This seems like an overly complicated arrangement overall, and you could position them where you like.

Personally, if you want mains electricity I'd get a proper outdoor plug socket fitted, rather than these bodges with cables under lawns, flowerbeds etc.

I'm not the OP, however solar lights would rarely be suitable vs LV lighting. My partner must have spent a fortune over the years trying every solar light going and hardly any have lasted a year without failing or filling with water, and they're a chocolate fireguard over winter. False economy in my view as over the period of time you would have low voltage lights, you would end up buying many more solar lights

Absolutely, any solar powered lights I’ve seen have always been a bit pathetic in that they are only powerful enough to light about 3cm around them (maybe slight exaggeration). I’m looking for something that will be reliable and bright all year round and solar powered lights are neither reliable or bright.  As you say, they just don’t seem to last, with the majority of any around me that were put in last summer having seemingly given up already.

You'll find Hue are great, and being able to program them or have them come oh when you get home is great. 

I've got 10 Calla lights that I got on FB marketplace for £25 each, I couldn't believe it. I was sure they were going to be broken when I plugged them in but they were brand new, I don't think he knew what he had! £1290 at today's prices, vs £250. My other half has spent more than Both figures combined in solar lights before I made her stop haha. she wouldnt even keep the receipts until I started making her! just all landfill after a while. They have their place, like a plantpot light or something, but LV lights look far better. 

Jimmithecat

Just to jump on the bandwagon here how much do you think it would cost to have a double outside socket fitted in SW London? It will be on a balcony - about 4ft away from a plug socket in the living room with one solid external wall to drill through?

Bendy_House

Money_Grabber13579 said:

Bendy_House said:

Hi MG.
Is your proposed lighting system the 'Hue' from Philips? If so, the cables you linked to would seem ideal, and - being (extra) low voltage - should be safe wherever you run it. 
Burying it would certainly be neater, but also more awkward should it stop working for any reason...
Anyhoo, if burying, I think what I would do is first wipe a good dollop of silicone GREASE into the connectors before tightening them up. Then I'd wrap amalgamating tape over the joints and possibly over the whole fitting. That should last.

Thanks, yes, it is indeed some of the Philips Hue low voltage outdoor lights which I’m planning on installing (I bought them on Black Friday last year with 25% off I think but they’re now almost twice the price! 😮).

That’s a good point about accessing the cables if anything every goes wrong…I was considering burying them in the lawn as I would be less likely to start digging in the lawn, but at the same time, I don’t want to have to keep digging up the lawn if the need arises. I’ll give that some more thought and see whether neatness or practicality wins out! I’ll follow the tip of the silicone grease regardless though, as my experience is that water has a habit of getting into anything, no matter how water proof it is supposed to be.

If it's under a lawn, then they will almost certainly last many many years. My only concern about burying them was if they might be disturbed by digging.

The seals on these connectors will almost certainly involve rubber/neoprene O-rings or similar, and sili grease will not only help make them more waterproof in the first place, but also help preserve the seals. I'd always amalgamate-tape them too, but I'd certainly then bury them with no concerns.