Advise re: Making an Online Money Claim (County Court claim)

Dash1

Hi,

First, Thank you for looking, & thanks for any advice you might be able to give me.

I have been asked by my elderly In-laws to see if I can help them make a claim, to try & get some of the money back which they paid to someone to have their motorcycle converted from a bike to a trike, for medical reasons.

We have started filling the form in online, but have not gotten very far as we are unsure how to answer one of the first questions. 

The question we are unsure how to answer is:

Who are you making the claim against?

An individual
For example someone you lent money to

A sole trader or self-employed person
For example a tradesperson who did work for you

A limited company
For example a company that sold you goods or services

Another type of organisation

For example a partnership, trust, charity, club or association 


Now t he reason we are unsure how to answer is because the CEO/Owner of the company first asked for a £2,500 deposit to be paid by bank transfer directly in to his PERSONAL bank account, as he said he was having trouble with his company bank account. He again asked for a further £1,000 for a special 'reverse gear system', which he did say that he had ordered from a specialist, & that it would be ready for when the bike was delivered to him. We did not get a receipt from this man, but eventually after several text messages & emails, he did supply a receipt with the company name on it. He also said verbally & in messages that the work would only take 4-6 weeks, but the work never started & 5 month later we had to take a trailer down to pick up the bike which had nothing done to it, other than left to stand & get a dead battery.

We are unsure which option we choose to proceed further with the claim, as we paid the monies in to his personal bank account, which we can show, we don't if we choose the 'An Individual' option, or since he supplied a receipt on headed paper, do we choose 'A Limited company'?

We have been advised by people in the area which the company is based, that the CEO is planning to go Bankrupt, as he has done the same thing regarding taking BIG deposits from people, but he does not carry out the work, & I say this with confidence, as I had a couple contact me (they'd lost a Honda Goldwing & £2,500) after they saw a post I had made trying to track the CEO down. We have also heard from a proper trike builder in Wales, that this person we are chasing, he has also taken money £5,000 from another elderly gent, but he also cut his bike in half & gave him it back after having it for 5 months. I could go on & on, but I'm not here to have a rant about this awful man.

So do we choose....

1.  'An Individual' since the money went in to his personal bank account?

2.  'A Limited Company' since he gave a receipt on company paper?

Your advice with how we proceed would be gratefully appreciated.

So thanks again for looking & putting up with my rant.


Regards

Dash

Sandtree

Follow the contract not the money

Are you saying he is personally going to go bankrupt or petition that his company is insolvent? Suing someone with no money means throwing good after bad

user1977

What else was there in writing apart from the receipt? Were they originally advertising as a limited company? What's the current status of the company (i.e. does it appear to be still operating and solvent on Companies House)?

Dash1

Sandtree said:

Follow the contract not the money

Are you saying he is personally going to go bankrupt or petition that his company is insolvent? Suing someone with no money means throwing good after bad

user1977 said:

What else was there in writing apart from the receipt? Were they originally advertising as a limited company? What's the current status of the company (i.e. does it appear to be still operating and solvent on Companies House)?

Thanks for your replies.

As far as we are aware he plans to have his business go bankrupt, but his March 2020 information on companies house said the business only had £7,550, but we have heard from friends of friends in the trade (whom we wish we'd heard about sooner), that he owes several businesses, as he try's get get credit with people if he can. Also, we have heard that he has had the business under someone else's name , we think a partner & they owed several local businesses money, so we think he & his partner have done this before.

As far as we know he has the money, as he recently bought a new Toyota Hilux, or similar truck & put the company name all over it.

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The only thing we have with the company name on it is the receipt for the deposit, & everything else was either emails, or his preferred method of contact, which was to send an odd reply to text messages, but ordinarily he would avoid any sort of contact with us, & he never answered his phone.

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This man likes to make people wait as long as it takes for people to get fed up with waiting for their new trikes, so they will just say they want their bikes back, he then tries to say that they have then forfeit their deposits as they are Non-Refundable, as stated on his website. But he tells people that their conversions will take 4-6wks, knowing that he's not going to do that, hence people wanting their bikes back & he then refuses any refund.

As I said above, he likes to take large deposits from people & not do any work, on the hope they won't take him to court. we do know the elderly gent who gave him £5,000 took went to court & this bloke offered to only pay £1 per week, so the motorcycle community are starting to get very fed up with this bloke. There are couple of other things this CEO has done, one was to sell raffle tickets for a trike, & all monies were to go to a local charity, but this hasn't happened. He also took a £12,000 to make a wheel chair capable trike, but again, nothing has appeared, & no money refunded.

We & the other people we now know that have had similar problems to ours, would love to get him shut down, but we wouldn't know who to report him to.

Sorry, he makes me so angry with what he's doing, so I can't help but have a rant about him.

But, Thanks again for your replies, they are appreciated.

Dash1

user1977 said:

What else was there in writing apart from the receipt? Were they originally advertising as a limited company? What's the current status of the company (i.e. does it appear to be still operating and solvent on Companies House)?

Sorry, The original website never mentioned it being a limited company, but his new website slightly altered website states only in the address that it is a limited company. Companies House does still show the company as operating, but he needs to have some documents sent to them by the 13th Jan 22, though what that is I couldn't say, but will try to find out.

Manxman_in_exile

You report him to Trading Standards (part of your County Council).  Officially I believe you are meant to route complaints to them via Citizens Advice, but there's no harm in trying to speak to them directly.  Or asking your local councillor to intervene.  If TS get enough complaints they should act.  (But don't hold your breath - they don't have a great reputation for thrilling action against miscreants).

It will help if you can get several complaints together from different parties, and it will also help if the complaints are all from the same County Council that the guy is based in.  (Otherwise your local TS may say "He's nothing to do with us - complain to his local TS" and they'll say "You live in a different county - you're nothing to do with us" and they'll just keep passing the buck).

Can't you get the motorcycle press involved to expose him?  MCN or one of the specialist 'bike monthlies.  "Watchdog" on TV or "You and Yours" on Radio 4?  One of the financial help pages in the press?  Tabloid and broadsheet.

I'd have thought some of these publications and programmes would love to expose someone preying on the disabled and elderly.

Good luck.

cx6

if the original website didn't mention limited company and you paid the money into his personal bank account then I would sue him personally.

Also if this is happening on a regular basis to multiple people then it isn't just a case of a badly run company it is possibly fraud and thus a criminal matter. I would contact the police - nothing much may happen but if they have had other complaints about him it might help them build a case.

Dash1

Thanks for your replies.

Manxman_in_exile,
We did contact the Trading Standards local to the company, as we are about 290 miles away, all they said was to send a letter with our complaint via recorded delivery, but like you said they just seemed to want to pass the buck, as it was not our local area. I have advised the other people, who are from the same county as the company, to contact them but from what they have told me, they were given the same advise as us, so they really seem like they are trying to avoid the situation.

I did say to my wife about contacting BBC Watchdog, but I thought they'd probably prefer going after bigger companies, since the program has been shortened down, & is part of The One Show now. I didn't think about approaching MCN etc., but I think I'll look in to contacting them to see if they are interested, the only other thing I had thought of doing was to spread word about the CEO & his company to several motorcycle related forums, but was concerned about possible action against myself.

cx6,
I was thinking more so to go after him personally, as the money went to his personal account, & we only have the one thing showing the company name on it.

We have had a couple of people try getting the police involved, all they told me I could do was to contact Action Fraud to report the man & his company, but due ill heath at the time it just slipped my mind, so I'll look back in to that. We had someone actually go to the local police station, but all they said was that it was a 'Civil matter' so they could not help, they apparently didn't mention anything regarding any sort of fraud. I have been given permission by one couple, to give their details, as we have also given our details for them to use, both when making the claim & for any other possible further action we can get against this company, so fingers crossed.

But thank you both for your advice, it is appreciated.

Dash  

sheramber

If you have legal cover on your contents insurance or your motorcycle insurance you could try them.

pinkshoes

As you paid him personally, then I think I would be going down the route of suing him as an individual. 

Do you have a personal address for him? If not, can you find one?

Dash1

Thanks for your replies.

sheramber,
I had suggested speaking to their home insurer for legal advice, so I'll get them to call today. Thanks

pinkshoes,
We thought going after him personally would be best, but we are also worried how things would go having to use the business address. We tried contacting the helpline for Make a money claim online, but all the options just told you to go back to their website, & we have to wait 10 days for a reply to our email asking for advice. But we'll see if the home insurance legal advice team, can help us out.

The only address we can get for him is the business address, after his wife left him with their disabled son, apparently he  has been sofa surfing, though we don't know how true the sofa surfing part is, but we've had people from the local area try to find out without any luck.

Thank you both for your advice, it is appreciated.

Dash