Can you go on multiple consecutive 1 month holidays abroad while on Universal Credit?

calcotti

xxxxxxxx said:

Nannytone said:

Since brexit, you wouldnt be allowed to spend 10 months a year in an EU country

Why not? Every time you leave and come back the clock starts ticking again.  What would stop him from doing it?

This is not to do with UC rules. Nannytone is referring to restrictions on visiting EU countries for more than 90 days in a 180 day period now that we are no longer EU citizens.

OhWow

NCLDH said:

theoretica said:

Habitual residence seems also to depend on if you have UK nationality or if not when you got settled status.

Spend too long in another country and you may become liable for tax returns there.

I was born in the UK. 

Unless born before the 1st January 1983, just being born in the UK does not mean the baby is born British.

From 1 January 1983, a baby born in the UK gets their nationalty from their parent/s. For children of non-British citizens, the immigration status of a parent could mean the baby born in the UK is born a British citizen.

OhWow

NCLDH said:

NCLDH said:

Could I go abroad for a month, come back for few days, and then go abroad again for another month? Could I do this 10 times in a row? Or could this be a habitual residence rules?

Nannytone said:

Since brexit, you wouldnt be allowed to spend 10 months a year in an EU country

You can if you have an EU passport

You will likely meet the requirements to be taxed in the EEA country you will living in, instead of the UK. Making you a resident of that country and not of the UK.

Under the EU's 2004 Directive of Free Movement of Persons, as an EEA citizen worker Quailifed Person, you will be able to claim benefits from that EEA/Swiss county. If it is your own EEA country, you will be able to claim as a citizen of that country.

The same with healthcare: as a Worker Qualified Person, you sign up to healthcare in that EEA/Swiss country.

tomtom256

NCLDH said:

As I mentioned in the original post I am not subject to work search requirements. My query was based almost entirely on the question of habitual residency. My understanding of it is that if I spent 6+ months in UK I would be fine, but more than that seems uncertain. 

Sorry missed that, wasn't sure if you had a start up period. It could potentially red flag you for undeclared assets/living beyond your means, if you can afford to claim UC and constantly be abroad, except for the the odd day, to reset the clock.

xxxxxxxx

calcotti said:

This is not to do with UC rules. Nannytone is referring to restrictions on visiting EU countries for more than 90 days in a 180 day period now that we are no longer EU citizens.

That's what I was asking.  I was not aware of a 180day limit per year for us. 

So OP you could do it 6 times in a year, any more than that and you would probably find you have to pay tax and be resident in in the country you are visiting and thus not entitled to UC in the UK.

If, however, you had access to another cottage in another EU member state then you could visit the 2 countries for more than 6 times per year. (because you have a EU member state passport.) 

calcotti

xxxxxxxx said: That's what I was asking.  I was not aware of a 180day limit per year for us. 

So OP you could do it 6 times in a year, any more than that and you would probably find you have to pay tax and be resident in in the country you are visiting and thus not entitled to UC in the UK.

If, however, you had access to another cottage in another EU member state then you could visit the 2 countries for more than 6 times per year. (because you have a EU member state passport.) 

That isn't necessarily true. The rules are unclear. In general, as I understand it, British nationals are not allowed to be in the EU for more than 90 days in 180 regardless of whether the 90 days is in one country or more. However beyond 90 days different countries can apply different rules which might involve requiring a visa.

I don't think any of that has to do with demonstrating where one is primarily resident and which country might be the relevant tax authority.

By the end of 2022 we will all need a visa to visit the EU even for less than this if plans for the European Travel Information and Authorisation Scheme proceed as scheduled.

Welcome to controlling our borders (with apologies to OP if we have gone off track).

kaMelo

There are no EU wide rules on how long you can stay there.
The 90/180 days rule applies to the Schengen area as a whole, spending time in countries inside the Schengen area are cumulative towards the Schengen area only, it has no impact on how long you can spend time in a country that is an EU member but outside of the Schengen who each have their own individual 90/180 days rule and apply only to those individual countries.


I appreciate this adds nothing towards the OP's post but thought for clarity it would be helpful as the 90/180 days rule is often, as in this thread, quoted inaccurately as an EU rule rather than a Schengen area rule.

calcotti

Thanks, KaMelo, for clarifying that and making the distinction between EU member countries and the Schengen area.

xxxxxxxx

Inter-state tax laws are extremely complex. I know, because I have had to deal with them for a French national moving to the UK. I really would never want to read the laws and guidance ever again. But I'm pretty sure from what I read, the UK tax authority would normally deem a person to be liable for UK tax and treated as resident in UK for UK tax purposes if they are in the UK for more than 180 days in a tax year.    There is a get out clause of falling onto a category I cannot remember the name of where the person can claim to be exempt because none of their income is generated in the UK and they do not import the income into the UK.  I would say that if he is spending more than 180 days in another country he had better be very careful with that countries tax requirements.  

With regard to me saying he can probably visit 2 EU countries for more than 6 months in a year... I was speaking purely from a tax point of view. He has said he has a EUMS (eumemberstate) passport so he would not be travelling as a British National he would be travelling as a EUMS passport holder. If he spends less than 180 days in each country per year he should be ok in terms of having to pay tax in that country. But it would be best to check with that countries tax authority.

With regards to the 180 days of Schengen Area limits for British Nationals he would have to be very careful of the rules, but I would have thought they would not take a second look at him entering or leaving EU if he holds an EUMS passport.

Spoonie_Turtle

xxxxxxxx said:

I would say that if he is spending more than 180 days in another country he had better be very careful with that countries tax requirements. 

I am not familiar with tax rules At All, nor particularly well versed in matters of habitual residence etc., but it strikes me that if someone ends up liable for tax in another country because of residing elsewhere for so long, that could possibly call into question whether their Centre of Interest is indeed in Great Britain, which in turn could call into doubt whether the absences are actually temporary (allowing them to be treated as "in GB" even though they're physically somewhere else) or whether they are perhaps no longer "habitually resident" and therefore cannot be treated as being "in GB" and are then no longer eligible for UC.

See The Presence Condition C1120 - C1165
and C1966 onwards for Habitual Residence, Absences from GB, Temporary Absences 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1041952/admc1.pdf


Edit: there are many other factors explicitly mentioned, and it may be that the conclusion based on the facts of a case is that the claimant is fine and still has their CoI in GB, but just to be aware of the possibility and consider whether it would be worth the hassle and risk.

[I suppose the recent prevalence of virtual meetings with friends, family, clubs, etc. maybe muddies the waters, as one does not have to be physically in one country to participate in many aspects of life there!]