Will DWP find out person claiming ESA/PIP is working full time without declaring?

williewonder

How long will it take, considering this person is due to work full time and will have pay slips. What happens to the person if they are found out also considering this person has an appointee?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

One pay day.  When the employer reports the earnings to HMRC they get automatically passed on to DWP.

DWP will investigate and others with more knowledge of DWP procedures will comment on the likely outcome.

williewonder

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

One pay day.  When the employer reports the earnings to HMRC they get automatically passed on to DWP.

This person has had 3 months of seasonal work and the DWP hasn't got involved yet. I don't want anything bad to happen to this person but he's not declaring working again while claiming ESA. I don't want him to get into trouble but there is no talking to him.

poppy12345

That tells me they haven't started working full time yet.

williewonder said:

this person is due to work full time

williewonder said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

One pay day.  When the employer reports the earnings to HMRC they get automatically passed on to DWP.

This person has had 3 months of seasonal work and the DWP hasn't got involved yet.

They can do permitted work and earn a maximum of £143/week but you must work less than 16 a week. https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/working-while-you-claim

It doesn't affect your ESA but you must tell DWP that you're working.

PIP isn't affected.

sammyjammy

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

One pay day.  When the employer reports the earnings to HMRC they get automatically passed on to DWP.

DWP will investigate and others with more knowledge of DWP procedures will comment on the likely outcome.

This doesn't apply to the ESA payment system, it could be picked up under other checks though.

TELLIT01

It could be picked up at any time, or never.  Not reporting earnings is risky, although in this instance the responsibility lays with the appointee.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

sammyjammy said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

One pay day.  When the employer reports the earnings to HMRC they get automatically passed on to DWP.

DWP will investigate and others with more knowledge of DWP procedures will comment on the likely outcome.

This doesn't apply to the ESA payment system, it could be picked up under other checks though.

Good point!

Robbie64

Regardless of how / when the DWP find out a person is working, as the person has an appointee then the appointee is the one taking the financial / legal risk.

tomtom256

They do get the earnings feed with all benefits now, but it can take a few months for the system to work it's magic and flag it up for compliance/fraud to look into, as it's not automatic, like with UC.

xxxxxxxx

The Appointee is the person responsible to report the change. Ultimately the Appointee is also financially responsible to pay back the overpayment out of their own money not the claimant's money.  

In practice, however, the overpayment will be recovered out of the claimant's future benefit payments.  It would only be recovered out of the appointee's money if the claimant did not claim benefits again and had no earnings. immediately. 

DWP have swathes of people who will be given claims to look at where the computer has found a claim to ESA was made at the same time as HMRC was showing earnings. 

What happens then is that because the work has now finished (I assume from what you wrote he is no longer working) the DWP will create an overpayment for the 3 months worked, they will add on a £50 penalty and then they will recover the money from him.  and the ESA claim will be allowed to continue.  

If he is still working when they look at his claim his claim will be closed and the overpayment will be recovered from his PIP. 

His PIP will not be affected by his working. there is usually no need to report work/earnings to PIP.  If the work he is doing contradicts his PIP decision to award  then  this could lead to an overpayment of PIP. 

That is really all that usually happens.  However, if the case is referred to fraud and they take an interest in the case there is a possibility of court action, but it would be very unusual unless the overpayment was a substantial amount.

calcotti

xxxxxxxx said:

What happens then is that because the work has now finished (I assume from what you wrote he is no longer working) 

I read it as the claimant is going to start working. As the work will be full time all ESA paid from the date of commencement of work will be an overpayment