Neighbours garage water ingress (claims my fault)

Leazes1

Firstly excuse the long detailed post!

Our next door neighbour had a separate garage built next to our back garden back in 1994 before we moved in. It was a new-build estate at the time. The owners of the property had the garage built as a 'weekend job' by the builders as it was cheaper than paying the builder. The wall of the garage sits on the border line between our two properties and soil from our garden sat alongside the wall of the garage. The garage is at a slightly lower level to our property and has one layer of engineering bricks (rather than two), it is also single skinned. Also some of the 'engineering bricks' on the inside of the neighbours garage are actually 'ordinary bricks' but painted to look like engineering bricks! The neighbour has shown us this.

A few years ago we decided to remove all the soil and grass in the back garden and put in Indian Paving flagstones across our back garden including up to the side of the neighbours garage. We removed the soil next to the garage as it was very clay based and used to flood badly and drainage was poor. The Indian Paving is sealed next to the brick garage and water that falls on the paving drains away in the middle of the patio into an aco drain. 

The new owner of the property now says that water is getting into the garage at a time of heavy rainfall. 

We have had two builders looking at our patio and they cannot see how water is getting through as any water falling on the patio drains to the aco drain but think that water is actually coming from the back of the neighbours garage and into the garage perhaps under our patio. It 'could' be that when we moved the clay soil next to the garage it exposed an area of the garage which was not watertight. 

The neighbour wants us to cut back our patio to give a space between the patio and the garage. We could do this but it would seem pointless from what our builders have told us.

My question is about liabilities. The neighbour is claiming the water didn't get through until we put the patio in but at the same time they have a substandard garage with one layer of engineering bricks. The garage was always built at a lower level than our soil/patio as well. Does the neighbour have a claim? Could he just 'tank' the inside of his garage to cut down the risk of leak?

Thanks very much in advance for any replies.

Rosa_Damascena

I think your neighbour needs to learn how to whistle.

Don't expect relations to be good from this point forward though.

GDB2222

I'd look for some sort of compromise, perhaps where you share the cost of a surveyor to determine what is wrong. 

Doozergirl

GDB2222 said:

I'd look for some sort of compromise, perhaps where you share the cost of a surveyor to determine what is wrong. 

That is not a compromise.  What is wrong that the neighbour built a garage with no tanking at below the height of next door's land. 

As long as the OP hasn't built up any higher than it was originally then it's hardly their liability that there is an inherent design fault. 

A french drain would probably be cheaper than a surveyor.   If I were being neighbourly, I might agree to put in a french drain where the gravel sits lower than their internal floor level but I would not be paying for it. 

The problem is with the construction - any builder knew about the value of damp proof membranes and cavity walls in 1994. 

greenface2

I agree 100% with the post above . not your problem . doozer and your builders know 

FreeBear

Doozergirl said:  A french drain would probably be cheaper than a surveyor.   If I were being neighbourly, I might agree to put in a french drain where the gravel sits lower than their internal floor level but I would not be paying for it.

When I laid a path between my garage and the neighbour's, this is just what I did even although their DPC is over 150mm higher than my path. The french drain is just 150mm or so wide and the same deep filled with a decorative gravel. These things don't need any fancy design and can be put in fairly cheaply.

Bendy_House

As I understand it, the neighbour cannot simply 'claim' that the water is caused by your patio; they need to 'prove' it. Eg, it's either 'obvious', or else they have a surveyor out to confirm it.

And then there's the issue that they had the garage built where the lower part of the wall was clearly acting as a retaining wall, but took no steps to prevent your existing raised soil level from causing potential issues.

You've had two builders out to have a look?! That's very decent of you. Just reiterate to your neighbour, calmly but matter-of-factly, that nothing has changed level-wise, and the simple fact is that the garage was built against what was always a slightly higher ground level - not your problem. You've also had two builders out who cannot see that the patio is causing this issue. Therefore, he either needs to get a proper surveyor out to examine the issue and determine the true cause (I wonder what the surveyor will say when they see the garage construction!), or - if you are happy with a French drain - you can suggest they pay to have one installed by a professional builder if they really believe it'll help. You ain't going to do this, because you don't accept it is the cause, and your soil level was always higher than theirs - ie it's not your 'fault'.

Leazes1

Many thanks for the replies and it very much ties in with my thoughts.

In fact the second builder (we called him in to get a quote to cut back the patio from the garage to make a French drain) wondered why we wanted to do it and also said (without prompting) the water could be coming from the neighbours side.

The patio is exactly the same height as the previous soil level as I have checked photos of before and after again this morning. The soil was always way above the bottom of the garage by a few bricks worth and the garage only has one brick layer of engineering bricks above the ground.

I suspect my neighbours' solution would be to tank the inside of his garage (once we've had a dry period) to prevent further damp?

Bendy_House

The neighbour's solution is up to them. I wouldn't get involved in suggesting anything to them.

It's good that the finished ground level hasn't changed. Obviously if you had increased the height over what would have been their DPC level, then they could complain. From what you say, tho', they would/should/did know from the off that they were having the garage built against an existing higher level of ground, and should have designed in a solution. If their builder was at fault, that's for them to sort and not for you.

Even more so than before, I would simply pass the buck on to them; "My ground level hasn't changed. Your garage was built up against the ground level that was already there. If you disagree about this, you need a surveyor out to determine the true cause of your water issue, and come up with a solution" (don't snigger at that point...)

Sandtree

Bendy_House said:

As I understand it, the neighbour cannot simply 'claim' that the water is caused by your patio; they need to 'prove' it. Eg, it's either 'obvious', or else they have a surveyor out to confirm it.

Even if they prove its caused by the OP's patio that isnt sufficient in itself... its not uncommon for a washing machine in an upper floor flat to break and cause damage to the flat below but just proving the water came from the washing machine doesnt create liability for the damage. 

In most cases it is necessary to prove negligence not just the source of the water... was it reasonably predictable that the creation of the patio would cause this problem? The answer to which could be complicated if the OP knew of the poor construction of the garage prior to installing the patio.

Leazes1

Sandtree said:

Bendy_House said:

As I understand it, the neighbour cannot simply 'claim' that the water is caused by your patio; they need to 'prove' it. Eg, it's either 'obvious', or else they have a surveyor out to confirm it.

Even if they prove its caused by the OP's patio that isnt sufficient in itself... its not uncommon for a washing machine in an upper floor flat to break and cause damage to the flat below but just proving the water came from the washing machine doesnt create liability for the damage. 

In most cases it is necessary to prove negligence not just the source of the water... was it reasonably predictable that the creation of the patio would cause this problem? The answer to which could be complicated if the OP knew of the poor construction of the garage prior to installing the patio.

The construct of the neighbours' garage never occurred to me until I was approached about the issue.

As I say I think his issue could be cured by tanking the wall to stop further damp or water ingress and it would be a fairly cheap fix.