Mechanic Damaged my car, and lied. Refusing to fix problem. What can I do about it?

MattMattMattUK

iancowley said:

MattMattMattUK said:

iancowley said:

MattMattMattUK said:

The wire in question sounds like the exciter wire, it not being functional would also explain why the alternator was not charging the battery. These to not seem to be expensive, from a quick Google £30-100, depending on the car they can be relatively easy to fit, or a total nightmare, so you might be able to do it yourself in ten minutes, or it might take someone skilled an hour or more. It would be reasonably likely that the alternator has been replaced twice, but that the cable is still the first one, which could well have caused the initial fault, gluing the cable may well have worked temporally, it might have even worked for years (eg. it could have been like that for as long as you have owned the car, and was now working it's way lose, causing the problem, potentially why it worked, with the first garage gluing it back on). 

From a diagnostic perspective OBD would have just shown that there was no current delivery from the alternator, you would have to ask a mechanic, but my guess is a first would be that after a cursory inspection of the cables on the alternator they would replace the alternator, they might even never look at the other end. 

If I had to hazard a guess I would say that there were no issues with either alternator, the cable went the first time and was either glued by the first garage, or when they changed the alternator the cable got wiggled back into the right place. At some point before it failed the second time it worked loose and/or out of alignment again, the alternator was then replaced again, with the cable either then being temporally in the right place, or glued into place at that point, if it was not at the before. 

Thanks for the help. I've not heard back from him so It looks like I'm sourcing it myself and have no clue.

The picture below is not a Megane but it looks like it could be the same thing. The little black clip, with white sticker is in the same position on my car so could be the thing. On my car you can't see that clip, it's covered with black silicone.

https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/attachments/dsc03444-jpg.182951/

Just one question, if it was glued on how can he have changed the alternator, and why didn't he ever mention this cable after having my car for 14 days and always telling me it's the alternator itself and not cabling?

Which end was glued, the end that fixes to the alternator, or the end that fixes to the engine/runs off into the rest of the electrical system? There is only one cable onto the alternator, which is that plug/socket you have pictured, it is standardised (two pin, there is also a three pin), one cable runs to the battery, the other to the engine itself (there is then another cable which completes the circuit elsewhere). My guess might be that the clip is broken, it is designed to lock in place, so someone used silicone to hold it in place rather than either replace the cable, or because they are thick. Was the silicone actually in a place where it could have held the socket in place, or was it just sort of blobbed in a mess, silicone is an insulator so if any is inside the socket/on the connector on the alternator it will stop it working as well? If it was at the alternator end of the cable then it could have only been done by the last person to replace the alternator. 

Having had a look online, I am not sure I would want to attempt replacing that cable on a Megane, it looks like an absolute pig of a job. I am not a mechanic, but I am fairly happy to learn things (two weeks ago I replaced the ABS sensors on my car, the garage told me it was £120 per sensor, I paid £140 for all four for genuine Bosch parts and it took me two hours, but a huge part of that was removing and then putting back on all four wheels) but the way the cable runs through the engine bay and with all the other wiring looms it looks like a total nightmare to change, so much so that the best option might actually be to splice the cable. My guess with replacing that cable properly might be a "parts £50, labour £500" situation, you also have the issue that even having done that, it might not actually solve the problem. 

If it were me I would clean all the silicone, off, make sure that all the connectors are clean and see if it can still connect reliably, then make sure that with the cable in place the battery charges properly, it would also then be clear how damaged the connector actually is and if the issue is at that point, or somewhere else in the wiring. That does however mean you would need to be comfortable doing that kind of thing. 

Exactly where that clip is on the photo, attached to the alternator. You cannot see the clip. It's a mound of black silicone covering it, with a wire popping out.

", so someone used silicone to hold it in place rather than either replace the cable, or because they are thick. "

They are thick. That's what the 2nd opinion garage told me, and they refused to touch it until I took it back and asked what was going on underneath the blob.

So now I'm stuck.

That's why I think the guy is lying. Because when I pointed it out, he started acting all sheepish then tried to play it off as nothing, a silly little cable, easy to replace. But as you and the other garage say, it's not that simple.

My guess is that he broke the clip when he changed the second alternator and though that his bodge would work, possibly for a year or two, in the hope that he would get away with it. I also agree that he has no intention of replacing it, the cable is not designed to be replaced (hence why it is designed in a way to make it a real pig, it should be a life of the vehicle part). Having had another look it might be possible to re-wire the connector rather than the whole cable, but from looking online it depends on the model/year and you would need to source the whole cable regardless. 

It might be worth asking the third garage if they would be willing/able to replace the connector if all the silicone was cleaned off, or if they could recommend an option as the retention clip is broken, they might have some sort of viable option. The second guy very much sounds like he does not know what he was/is doing, but I think you will struggle to prove liability and/or get him to do anything to rectify his mess and that would be if you would even trust him to do so. 

iancowley

MattMattMattUK said:

iancowley said:

MattMattMattUK said:

iancowley said:

MattMattMattUK said:

The wire in question sounds like the exciter wire, it not being functional would also explain why the alternator was not charging the battery. These to not seem to be expensive, from a quick Google £30-100, depending on the car they can be relatively easy to fit, or a total nightmare, so you might be able to do it yourself in ten minutes, or it might take someone skilled an hour or more. It would be reasonably likely that the alternator has been replaced twice, but that the cable is still the first one, which could well have caused the initial fault, gluing the cable may well have worked temporally, it might have even worked for years (eg. it could have been like that for as long as you have owned the car, and was now working it's way lose, causing the problem, potentially why it worked, with the first garage gluing it back on). 

From a diagnostic perspective OBD would have just shown that there was no current delivery from the alternator, you would have to ask a mechanic, but my guess is a first would be that after a cursory inspection of the cables on the alternator they would replace the alternator, they might even never look at the other end. 

If I had to hazard a guess I would say that there were no issues with either alternator, the cable went the first time and was either glued by the first garage, or when they changed the alternator the cable got wiggled back into the right place. At some point before it failed the second time it worked loose and/or out of alignment again, the alternator was then replaced again, with the cable either then being temporally in the right place, or glued into place at that point, if it was not at the before. 

Thanks for the help. I've not heard back from him so It looks like I'm sourcing it myself and have no clue.

The picture below is not a Megane but it looks like it could be the same thing. The little black clip, with white sticker is in the same position on my car so could be the thing. On my car you can't see that clip, it's covered with black silicone.

https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.renaultforums.co.uk/attachments/dsc03444-jpg.182951/

Just one question, if it was glued on how can he have changed the alternator, and why didn't he ever mention this cable after having my car for 14 days and always telling me it's the alternator itself and not cabling?

Which end was glued, the end that fixes to the alternator, or the end that fixes to the engine/runs off into the rest of the electrical system? There is only one cable onto the alternator, which is that plug/socket you have pictured, it is standardised (two pin, there is also a three pin), one cable runs to the battery, the other to the engine itself (there is then another cable which completes the circuit elsewhere). My guess might be that the clip is broken, it is designed to lock in place, so someone used silicone to hold it in place rather than either replace the cable, or because they are thick. Was the silicone actually in a place where it could have held the socket in place, or was it just sort of blobbed in a mess, silicone is an insulator so if any is inside the socket/on the connector on the alternator it will stop it working as well? If it was at the alternator end of the cable then it could have only been done by the last person to replace the alternator. 

Having had a look online, I am not sure I would want to attempt replacing that cable on a Megane, it looks like an absolute pig of a job. I am not a mechanic, but I am fairly happy to learn things (two weeks ago I replaced the ABS sensors on my car, the garage told me it was £120 per sensor, I paid £140 for all four for genuine Bosch parts and it took me two hours, but a huge part of that was removing and then putting back on all four wheels) but the way the cable runs through the engine bay and with all the other wiring looms it looks like a total nightmare to change, so much so that the best option might actually be to splice the cable. My guess with replacing that cable properly might be a "parts £50, labour £500" situation, you also have the issue that even having done that, it might not actually solve the problem. 

If it were me I would clean all the silicone, off, make sure that all the connectors are clean and see if it can still connect reliably, then make sure that with the cable in place the battery charges properly, it would also then be clear how damaged the connector actually is and if the issue is at that point, or somewhere else in the wiring. That does however mean you would need to be comfortable doing that kind of thing. 

Exactly where that clip is on the photo, attached to the alternator. You cannot see the clip. It's a mound of black silicone covering it, with a wire popping out.

", so someone used silicone to hold it in place rather than either replace the cable, or because they are thick. "

They are thick. That's what the 2nd opinion garage told me, and they refused to touch it until I took it back and asked what was going on underneath the blob.

So now I'm stuck.

That's why I think the guy is lying. Because when I pointed it out, he started acting all sheepish then tried to play it off as nothing, a silly little cable, easy to replace. But as you and the other garage say, it's not that simple.

My guess is that he broke the clip when he changed the second alternator and though that his bodge would work, possibly for a year or two, in the hope that he would get away with it. I also agree that he has no intention of replacing it, the cable is not designed to be replaced (hence why it is designed in a way to make it a real pig, it should be a life of the vehicle part). Having had another look it might be possible to re-wire the connector rather than the whole cable, but from looking online it depends on the model/year and you would need to source the whole cable regardless. 

It might be worth asking the third garage if they would be willing/able to replace the connector if all the silicone was cleaned off, or if they could recommend an option as the retention clip is broken, they might have some sort of viable option. The second guy very much sounds like he does not know what he was/is doing, but I think you will struggle to prove liability and/or get him to do anything to rectify his mess and that would be if you would even trust him to do so. 

I went and took photos 

iancowley

I went and took photos

iancowley

I went and took photos

iancowley

I went and took photos

iancowley

jimjames said:

iancowley said:

MattMattMattUK said:

The first garage replaced the alternator, that was a fairly logical course of action, especially of the OBD showed that the alternator was not producing a charge for the battery. 

The second garage probably ran a more in depth diagnostic, but got inconclusive results, possibly the same error code which showed an issue with the alternator, which he then replaced. I suspect that the "diagrams" he was waiting for might have been wiring diagrams, annoyingly these are not fixed when a model of car is designed, they often change over the course of production, so he may have been trying to get hold of these to trace the wiring issue he suspected. My suspicion is a wiring issue, that could be the cable with the silicone on, which could well be a neutral back to the engine, or something entirely separate, it could be damage elsewhere which leads to a charging issue, a short etc. I suspect you might be somewhat right with your diagnosis, the initial alternator may have been a problem (the battery going flat whilst driving is a fairly strong indicator of that), but that it may have also been part of a wider issue, which is why it is still ongoing. I have a ThinkCar 2 OBDII diagnostic module, it cost me £30 from Amazon and it lets me see any error codes, it might be worth you getting something similar so you can see what is happening, this might be a good start before you go to anyone else as you can then Google the error codes to get an idea of what work might need doing and how much it might cost. 

You do not have any entitlement to "receipts" or "evidence".

"You do not have any entitlement to "receipts" or "evidence"."

Really? He doesn't have to give any receipts for work?

The time for receipts or invoice is before payment. Get an invoice and pay it. No invoice, no payment. 

Then they hold your car until you make the payment.

MattMattMattUK

iancowley said:

I went and took photos 

That looks a mess, I can't even work out if the original socket would fit under all that mess! It looks very clean compared to the rest though, so probably would be new at my guess!

angrycrow

Looking at that mess I suspect he ordered the wrong alternator and the standard plug would not fit the connector on the alternator. Rather than get the correct part he has cut the plug off and boxed it with a crimped on spade connector and covered the whole mess on silicone. Spade connector is either loose or the silicone is messing up the connection.

If that assessment is correct the repair is quick requiring the correct shaped plug to be put onto the end of the cable. The challenge is identifying what the alternator was actually intended to fit and then sourcing a plug for that make and model. 

iancowley

angrycrow said:

Looking at that mess I suspect he ordered the wrong alternator and the standard plug would not fit the connector on the alternator. Rather than get the correct part he has cut the plug off and boxed it with a crimped on spade connector and covered the whole mess on silicone. Spade connector is either loose or the silicone is messing up the connection.

If that assessment is correct the repair is quick requiring the correct shaped plug to be put onto the end of the cable. The challenge is identifying what the alternator was actually intended to fit and then sourcing a plug for that make and model. 

The Renault forums say pretty much the same thing. I'll check the alternator number tomorrow and make a start. Thanks for the help.

iancowley

This is the serial number:
1342AQ00 I think it's a "Q"
YY20L19 14V

All I'm really finding on google is this from a Russian website.
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