iFA qualifications for retirement advice

dunstonh

There’s also a J05 exam, but as above, it’s unlikely most IFAs will have this, as they simply do not need to. You learn a lot more on the job nowadays than via the exams. 

I took the J05 exam over a decade ago. I don't believe it's available anymore. I thought it was a very good module and should have been made compulsory for those advisers that want to give drawdown advice.  Unless they held a comparable alternative (and there are many alternative or historic units available).     

The problem with getting a consumer to ask an adviser if they hold the AF8 (or any other specific unit) is that the course/exam change over the years and there are multiple examination boards.   So, you could have someone ask if you have AF8 and the adviser says no. But they could hold J05 and G60.

bostonerimus

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

wjr4

dunstonh said:

There’s also a J05 exam, but as above, it’s unlikely most IFAs will have this, as they simply do not need to. You learn a lot more on the job nowadays than via the exams. 

I took the J05 exam over a decade ago. I don't believe it's available anymore. I thought it was a very good module and should have been made compulsory for those advisers that want to give drawdown advice.  Unless they held a comparable alternative (and there are many alternative or historic units available).     

The problem with getting a consumer to ask an adviser if they hold the AF8 (or any other specific unit) is that the course/exam change over the years and there are multiple examination boards.   So, you could have someone ask if you have AF8 and the adviser says no. But they could hold J05 and G60.

It is still available as I’m taking it next month completely agree about the different examination boards. Personally, I’ve seen better advisers from the CII than LIBF.

dunstonh

The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

Similar to other professions.

It is worth remembering that decades ago, advisers would learn on the job and their employer would pay for the lot.  They would have training schools (ex hotel in my case).  Nowadays, it is usually self-funded and self-learnt.      Many people book the exam at the same time as buying the study material and there are countless stories of people finding the exam date creeps up on them and they haven't even opened the book yet.

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. 

Maths has very little to do with R04.   A good memory for various acts of parliament affecting pensions is key for R04.

wjr4

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

Why would that frighten you? Surely 90% of students passing it would mean it’s too easy? 

BritishInvestor

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

"nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves"

Agreed. The 6 level 4 exams can be passed within a year given sufficient study time.

BritishInvestor

dunstonh said:

There’s also a J05 exam, but as above, it’s unlikely most IFAs will have this, as they simply do not need to. You learn a lot more on the job nowadays than via the exams. 

I took the J05 exam over a decade ago. I don't believe it's available anymore. I thought it was a very good module and should have been made compulsory for those advisers that want to give drawdown advice.  Unless they held a comparable alternative (and there are many alternative or historic units available).     

The problem with getting a consumer to ask an adviser if they hold the AF8 (or any other specific unit) is that the course/exam change over the years and there are multiple examination boards.   So, you could have someone ask if you have AF8 and the adviser says no. But they could hold J05 and G60.

The AF8 is the only one* I know of (but could be wrong) where you actually have to get your hands "dirty" and undertake some genuine financial planning.

*along with the CFP Level 7 case study

https://www.cisi.org/cisiweb2/docs/default-source/cisi-website/qualifications/level-7-financial-plan-assessment-candidate-guidance.pdf?sfvrsn=dc5c1802_20

wjr4

BritishInvestor said:

dunstonh said:

There’s also a J05 exam, but as above, it’s unlikely most IFAs will have this, as they simply do not need to. You learn a lot more on the job nowadays than via the exams. 

I took the J05 exam over a decade ago. I don't believe it's available anymore. I thought it was a very good module and should have been made compulsory for those advisers that want to give drawdown advice.  Unless they held a comparable alternative (and there are many alternative or historic units available).     

The problem with getting a consumer to ask an adviser if they hold the AF8 (or any other specific unit) is that the course/exam change over the years and there are multiple examination boards.   So, you could have someone ask if you have AF8 and the adviser says no. But they could hold J05 and G60.

The AF8 is the only one* I know of (but could be wrong) where you actually have to get your hands "dirty" and undertake some genuine financial planning.

*along with the CFP Level 7 case study

https://www.cisi.org/cisiweb2/docs/default-source/cisi-website/qualifications/level-7-financial-plan-assessment-candidate-guidance.pdf?sfvrsn=dc5c1802_20

What about R06? As I mentioned previously, exams are one thing but you learn more on the job now. You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone. Even then, you still have client files checked, especially if high net worth. You don’t just pass the exams & are left alone to advise. 

BritishInvestor

wjr4 said:

BritishInvestor said:

dunstonh said:

There’s also a J05 exam, but as above, it’s unlikely most IFAs will have this, as they simply do not need to. You learn a lot more on the job nowadays than via the exams. 

I took the J05 exam over a decade ago. I don't believe it's available anymore. I thought it was a very good module and should have been made compulsory for those advisers that want to give drawdown advice.  Unless they held a comparable alternative (and there are many alternative or historic units available).     

The problem with getting a consumer to ask an adviser if they hold the AF8 (or any other specific unit) is that the course/exam change over the years and there are multiple examination boards.   So, you could have someone ask if you have AF8 and the adviser says no. But they could hold J05 and G60.

The AF8 is the only one* I know of (but could be wrong) where you actually have to get your hands "dirty" and undertake some genuine financial planning.

*along with the CFP Level 7 case study

https://www.cisi.org/cisiweb2/docs/default-source/cisi-website/qualifications/level-7-financial-plan-assessment-candidate-guidance.pdf?sfvrsn=dc5c1802_20

What about R06? As I mentioned previously, exams are one thing but you learn more on the job now. You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone. Even then, you still have client files checked, especially if high net worth. You don’t just pass the exams & are left alone to advise. 

"What about R06?"

AF8 is dramatically different to R06 IMO. 

"but you learn more on the job now"

Every person that I have spoken to re the CFP would say how much they have learnt, even those with a lot of experience.

"You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone"

You can pass a file check without having undertaken a "genuine" financial planning exercise.

zagfles

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!