iFA qualifications for retirement advice

HappyHarry

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

Ben can withdraw all the ISA with no tax, all the VCT with no tax (as he has held it for longer than 5 years) and 5% of his initial capital invested in the investment bond for each year (or part year) that he has held it.

This is £170,000+£100,000+(6*5%*£80,000) = £294,000

zagfles

HappyHarry said:

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

Ben can withdraw all the ISA with no tax, all the VCT with no tax (as he has held it for longer than 5 years) and 5% of his initial capital invested in the investment bond for each year (or part year) that he has held it.

This is £170,000+£100,000+(6*5%*£80,000) = £294,000

Ah right thanks, I knew the ISA wouldn't be taxable and was pretty sure the VCT wouldn't be, didn't know about the rules round investment bonds, thought they'd be subject to CGT and so could withdraw the lot and be within the CGT allowance.

bostonerimus

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

71% for me with a lot of educated guesses because I'm not that familiar with the details of UK pensions and tax. For Q50 I started thinking no tax on the ISA or the VCT, but don't know the details of the tax on the Investment Bond so I'm googling to see if I can understand that.

bostonerimus

bostonerimus said:

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

71% for me with a lot of educated guesses because I'm not that familiar with the details of UK pensions and tax. For Q50 I started thinking no tax on the ISA or the VCT, but don't know the details of the tax on the Investment Bond so I'm googling to see if I can understand that.

FYI, I can get to 294k tax free by adding the ISA and the VTC balances which come to 270k and then maybe using a the 5% allowance for each of the 6 years on the initial contribution to the investment bond  ie 80k*0.05*6 = 24k. No idea if that's correct reasoning.

zagfles

bostonerimus said:

bostonerimus said:

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

71% for me with a lot of educated guesses because I'm not that familiar with the details of UK pensions and tax. For Q50 I started thinking no tax on the ISA or the VCT, but don't know the details of the tax on the Investment Bond so I'm googling to see if I can understand that.

FYI, I can get to 294k tax free by adding the ISA and the VTC balances which come to 270k and then maybe using a the 5% allowance for each of the 6 years on the initial contribution to the investment bond  ie 80k*0.05*6 = 24k. No idea if that's correct reasoning.

Indeed, as per HH's answer above.

But even more puzzling is how you got 71% when there are 50 questions!! (it looks like it's just 1 mark for the multiple option questions 40-50)

bostonerimus

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

bostonerimus said:

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

71% for me with a lot of educated guesses because I'm not that familiar with the details of UK pensions and tax. For Q50 I started thinking no tax on the ISA or the VCT, but don't know the details of the tax on the Investment Bond so I'm googling to see if I can understand that.

FYI, I can get to 294k tax free by adding the ISA and the VTC balances which come to 270k and then maybe using a the 5% allowance for each of the 6 years on the initial contribution to the investment bond  ie 80k*0.05*6 = 24k. No idea if that's correct reasoning.

Indeed, as per HH's answer above.

But even more puzzling is how you got 71% when there are 50 questions!! (it looks like it's just 1 mark for the multiple option questions 40-50)

yeah 72...typo

cfw1994

wjr4 said:

BritishInvestor said:

dunstonh said:

There’s also a J05 exam, but as above, it’s unlikely most IFAs will have this, as they simply do not need to. You learn a lot more on the job nowadays than via the exams. 

I took the J05 exam over a decade ago. I don't believe it's available anymore. I thought it was a very good module and should have been made compulsory for those advisers that want to give drawdown advice.  Unless they held a comparable alternative (and there are many alternative or historic units available).     

The problem with getting a consumer to ask an adviser if they hold the AF8 (or any other specific unit) is that the course/exam change over the years and there are multiple examination boards.   So, you could have someone ask if you have AF8 and the adviser says no. But they could hold J05 and G60.

The AF8 is the only one* I know of (but could be wrong) where you actually have to get your hands "dirty" and undertake some genuine financial planning.

*along with the CFP Level 7 case study

https://www.cisi.org/cisiweb2/docs/default-source/cisi-website/qualifications/level-7-financial-plan-assessment-candidate-guidance.pdf?sfvrsn=dc5c1802_20

What about R06? As I mentioned previously, exams are one thing but you learn more on the job now. You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone. Even then, you still have client files checked, especially if high net worth. You don’t just pass the exams & are left alone to advise. 

What does “You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone” mean?  Who is compliance?!  Surely compliance would guide any advice from regulated advisors forever?!

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

Interesting.  Not sure where that specimen exam is (link?), but I bet a good few of the regulars on here would do okay🤣

wjr4

cfw1994 said:

wjr4 said:

BritishInvestor said:

dunstonh said:

There’s also a J05 exam, but as above, it’s unlikely most IFAs will have this, as they simply do not need to. You learn a lot more on the job nowadays than via the exams. 

I took the J05 exam over a decade ago. I don't believe it's available anymore. I thought it was a very good module and should have been made compulsory for those advisers that want to give drawdown advice.  Unless they held a comparable alternative (and there are many alternative or historic units available).     

The problem with getting a consumer to ask an adviser if they hold the AF8 (or any other specific unit) is that the course/exam change over the years and there are multiple examination boards.   So, you could have someone ask if you have AF8 and the adviser says no. But they could hold J05 and G60.

The AF8 is the only one* I know of (but could be wrong) where you actually have to get your hands "dirty" and undertake some genuine financial planning.

*along with the CFP Level 7 case study

https://www.cisi.org/cisiweb2/docs/default-source/cisi-website/qualifications/level-7-financial-plan-assessment-candidate-guidance.pdf?sfvrsn=dc5c1802_20

What about R06? As I mentioned previously, exams are one thing but you learn more on the job now. You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone. Even then, you still have client files checked, especially if high net worth. You don’t just pass the exams & are left alone to advise. 

What does “You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone” mean?  Who is compliance?!  Surely compliance would guide any advice from regulated advisors forever?!

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

Interesting.  Not sure where that specimen exam is (link?), but I bet a good few of the regulars on here would do okay🤣

Compliance - the people who so
file checks and ensure you’re doing the job properly. Yes, you are constantly monitored by them, but they can’t file check every single file. 

zagfles

cfw1994 said:

wjr4 said:

BritishInvestor said:

dunstonh said:

There’s also a J05 exam, but as above, it’s unlikely most IFAs will have this, as they simply do not need to. You learn a lot more on the job nowadays than via the exams. 

I took the J05 exam over a decade ago. I don't believe it's available anymore. I thought it was a very good module and should have been made compulsory for those advisers that want to give drawdown advice.  Unless they held a comparable alternative (and there are many alternative or historic units available).     

The problem with getting a consumer to ask an adviser if they hold the AF8 (or any other specific unit) is that the course/exam change over the years and there are multiple examination boards.   So, you could have someone ask if you have AF8 and the adviser says no. But they could hold J05 and G60.

The AF8 is the only one* I know of (but could be wrong) where you actually have to get your hands "dirty" and undertake some genuine financial planning.

*along with the CFP Level 7 case study

https://www.cisi.org/cisiweb2/docs/default-source/cisi-website/qualifications/level-7-financial-plan-assessment-candidate-guidance.pdf?sfvrsn=dc5c1802_20

What about R06? As I mentioned previously, exams are one thing but you learn more on the job now. You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone. Even then, you still have client files checked, especially if high net worth. You don’t just pass the exams & are left alone to advise. 

What does “You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone” mean?  Who is compliance?!  Surely compliance would guide any advice from regulated advisors forever?!

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

Interesting.  Not sure where that specimen exam is (link?), but I bet a good few of the regulars on here would do okay🤣

In the link quoted above, download 2021/22 exam guide link on the right, there's a specimen exam in it.

Have a go, I'm sure most regulars here would "pass", even those who use IFAs! Maybe they'll question what score their IFA got

DT2001

zagfles said:

cfw1994 said:

wjr4 said:

BritishInvestor said:

dunstonh said:

There’s also a J05 exam, but as above, it’s unlikely most IFAs will have this, as they simply do not need to. You learn a lot more on the job nowadays than via the exams. 

I took the J05 exam over a decade ago. I don't believe it's available anymore. I thought it was a very good module and should have been made compulsory for those advisers that want to give drawdown advice.  Unless they held a comparable alternative (and there are many alternative or historic units available).     

The problem with getting a consumer to ask an adviser if they hold the AF8 (or any other specific unit) is that the course/exam change over the years and there are multiple examination boards.   So, you could have someone ask if you have AF8 and the adviser says no. But they could hold J05 and G60.

The AF8 is the only one* I know of (but could be wrong) where you actually have to get your hands "dirty" and undertake some genuine financial planning.

*along with the CFP Level 7 case study

https://www.cisi.org/cisiweb2/docs/default-source/cisi-website/qualifications/level-7-financial-plan-assessment-candidate-guidance.pdf?sfvrsn=dc5c1802_20

What about R06? As I mentioned previously, exams are one thing but you learn more on the job now. You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone. Even then, you still have client files checked, especially if high net worth. You don’t just pass the exams & are left alone to advise. 

What does “You are also monitored by compliance until they think you can go it alone” mean?  Who is compliance?!  Surely compliance would guide any advice from regulated advisors forever?!

zagfles said:

bostonerimus said:

Take a look here for the Level 4 retirement planning syllabus from the CII.

https://shop.ciigroup.org/pensions-and-retirement-planning-r04--r04.html

As with so many financial trade qualifications there's a lot about the basic mechanics and structures of the system, nothing that anyone with common sense and a grasp of basic maths couldn't figure out for themselves. So you are mostly paying for a reassuring hand and to avoid having to learn the stuff for yourself. The thing that frightens me is the "nominal pass mark" is 65% and only 61% of the students passed in 2020.

I've just had a go at the specimen R04 exam in the 2021/22 exam guide, and got 86%!! No study, never worked in the financial services industry or had a related job, just an interested amateur. Learnt a few things from the 7 questions I got wrong! Some questions have rubbish wording eg q.30 but a nice algebra one once I understood the question. Don't understand q.50, how D can be right.

But yes, I certainly wouldn't trust any advisor who only got 65%!!

Interesting.  Not sure where that specimen exam is (link?), but I bet a good few of the regulars on here would do okay🤣

In the link quoted above, download 2021/22 exam guide link on the right, there's a specimen exam in it.

Have a go, I'm sure most regulars here would "pass", even those who use IFAs! Maybe they'll question what score their IFA got

Impressed with your 86% 👍.
The questions cover quite a diverse area, some of which I have no knowledge and no need of.
Personally I like my wife’s accountant and our IFA as they both have wide ranging knowledge but are happy to say “I’m not sure or not my area of expertise I’ll get back to you”.
Exams are a starting point……