Sorting a funeral, probable insolvent estate

doodling

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

Move the car to your driveway for safe keeping especially if the landlord wants the property back if the rent is no longer being paid? The car is an asset even if it's only worth £1000. 

When our mother passed 15/16 years ago we used a probate solicitor even though we probably could have done everything ourselves. I think the fee was under £250 but seeing as it went on for 2 years I thought that was a reasonable fee. There was more than enough in the estate to cover all debts as there was property involved, but most of the smaller debts like CC balances etc just got wrote off when the death cert was produced even though they could have had their money. 

This feels like bad advice if the OP doesn't want to administer the estate.  Once it is on their drive, what are they going to do with it (using it would be a no-no and so would selling it if the money wasn't required for a funeral)?

The only thing that the OP can do without ending up having to administer the estate is extract sufficient money from the estate for the funeral.  If that currently exists in a bank account then they should take that and leave everything else for someone else to deal with.  If the car needs to be sold to pay for a funeral then they might get away with that, but personally I'd prefer to avoid it, leaving the car sat wherever it currently is.

If I was the OP I would make sure that I'd got all the important paperwork from the flat and anything of sentimental value (assuming it was of negligible financial value) and I'd walk away leaving the landlord to deal with what is left.  I'd be reluctant to help the landlord clear the flat on the basis that I might be considered to be involving myself in the estate.

What it might be worth doing is writing letters to all the creditors letting them know that the deceased has passed away, listing the known assets (after the funeral is paid for) and debts, confirming that no-one is administering the estate and that they are welcome to do so if they fancy it.  If all of them wrote back and said they weren't interested and were writing off the debts then (and only then) might I be tempted to sell the car or do anything with the contents of the flat (it might be too late then of course - I assume that the landlord will be a creditor?).

Arge13

I fear I am going to have to go the route that doodling has just laid out. I don't want to but this all seems a legal minefield if you get too involved.

One last question on the pension if anyone knows. With this £3000 going to a named beneficiary and not within the estate, potentially myself, would I be seen as intermeddling if I accepted it? I'm think I wouldn't because I don't need to touch anything to do with the estate to access it. This may then let me pay for a headstone at a later date.

Thanks for all the advice so far. Really appreciate it.

[Deleted User]

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

Move the car to your driveway for safe keeping especially if the landlord wants the property back if the rent is no longer being paid? The car is an asset even if it's only worth £1000. 

When our mother passed 15/16 years ago we used a probate solicitor even though we probably could have done everything ourselves. I think the fee was under £250 but seeing as it went on for 2 years I thought that was a reasonable fee. There was more than enough in the estate to cover all debts as there was property involved, but most of the smaller debts like CC balances etc just got wrote off when the death cert was produced even though they could have had their money. 

This feels like bad advice if the OP doesn't want to administer the estate.  Once it is on their drive, what are they going to do with it (using it would be a no-no and so would selling it if the money wasn't required for a funeral)?

The only thing that the OP can do without ending up having to administer the estate is extract sufficient money from the estate for the funeral.  If that currently exists in a bank account then they should take that and leave everything else for someone else to deal with.  If the car needs to be sold to pay for a funeral then they might get away with that, but personally I'd prefer to avoid it, leaving the car sat wherever it currently is.

If I was the OP I would make sure that I'd got all the important paperwork from the flat and anything of sentimental value (assuming it was of negligible financial value) and I'd walk away leaving the landlord to deal with what is left.  I'd be reluctant to help the landlord clear the flat on the basis that I might be considered to be involving myself in the estate.

What it might be worth doing is writing letters to all the creditors letting them know that the deceased has passed away, listing the known assets (after the funeral is paid for) and debts, confirming that no-one is administering the estate and that they are welcome to do so if they fancy it.  If all of them wrote back and said they weren't interested and were writing off the debts then (and only then) might I be tempted to sell the car or do anything with the contents of the flat (it might be too late then of course - I assume that the landlord will be a creditor?).

Not bad advise at all. It's sounds like the OP has already involved themselves in it all and the car will need to be sold to release capital to pay off any debts. So it would be best to move it somewhere safe instead of leaving it for the "authorities" to dispose of.

If they OP really doesn't want anything to do with anything then let the council deal with the funeral arrangements and just walk away...

getmore4less

Removing selected items for save keeping.

Organising a funeral.

Notification of a person demise

Do not count as intermeddling.
(can if a named executor)

Do not go any further or move items for safe keeping that are not manageable (car)

Marcon

Deleted_User said:

Instruct a probate solicitor to deal with it, they will take their fee out of any assets first before distributing the rest to his creditors.

They won't touch it if it's insolvent, or likely to be.

Arge13 said:

If I understand correctly though I could be held liable if I administer the estate incorrectly up to the value of the estate? This is the reason I'm thinking if walking away from it all. I don't want to cause my self a legal headache if I don't need to. Then no one can come to me for any of it? Just want to be careful not to get involved to a point I can't walk from it 

Walk away - now - however bad you feel.

doodling

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Deleted_User said:

Move the car to your driveway for safe keeping especially if the landlord wants the property back if the rent is no longer being paid? The car is an asset even if it's only worth £1000. 

When our mother passed 15/16 years ago we used a probate solicitor even though we probably could have done everything ourselves. I think the fee was under £250 but seeing as it went on for 2 years I thought that was a reasonable fee. There was more than enough in the estate to cover all debts as there was property involved, but most of the smaller debts like CC balances etc just got wrote off when the death cert was produced even though they could have had their money. 

This feels like bad advice if the OP doesn't want to administer the estate.  Once it is on their drive, what are they going to do with it (using it would be a no-no and so would selling it if the money wasn't required for a funeral)?

The only thing that the OP can do without ending up having to administer the estate is extract sufficient money from the estate for the funeral.  If that currently exists in a bank account then they should take that and leave everything else for someone else to deal with.  If the car needs to be sold to pay for a funeral then they might get away with that, but personally I'd prefer to avoid it, leaving the car sat wherever it currently is.

If I was the OP I would make sure that I'd got all the important paperwork from the flat and anything of sentimental value (assuming it was of negligible financial value) and I'd walk away leaving the landlord to deal with what is left.  I'd be reluctant to help the landlord clear the flat on the basis that I might be considered to be involving myself in the estate.

What it might be worth doing is writing letters to all the creditors letting them know that the deceased has passed away, listing the known assets (after the funeral is paid for) and debts, confirming that no-one is administering the estate and that they are welcome to do so if they fancy it.  If all of them wrote back and said they weren't interested and were writing off the debts then (and only then) might I be tempted to sell the car or do anything with the contents of the flat (it might be too late then of course - I assume that the landlord will be a creditor?).

Not bad advise at all. It's sounds like the OP has already involved themselves in it all and the car will need to be sold to release capital to pay off any debts. So it would be best to move it somewhere safe instead of leaving it for the "authorities" to dispose of.

If they OP really doesn't want anything to do with anything then let the council deal with the funeral arrangements and just walk away...

As getmore4less says, none of what the OP has done so far (or is planning to do i.e. organise a funeral and pay for it with cash in the deceased's bank account) counts as intermeddling.  Taking possession of the car would probably be (well, actually taking possession probably wouldn't, but then the OP is faced with having to do something with it which would be).

Try Intermeddling With An Estate By An Executor l Blog l Nelsons (nelsonslaw.co.uk) for a better understanding of what is acceptable and what isn't.

doodling

Hi,

Arge13 said:

I fear I am going to have to go the route that doodling has just laid out. I don't want to but this all seems a legal minefield if you get too involved.

One last question on the pension if anyone knows. With this £3000 going to a named beneficiary and not within the estate, potentially myself, would I be seen as intermeddling if I accepted it? I'm think I wouldn't because I don't need to touch anything to do with the estate to access it. This may then let me pay for a headstone at a later date.

Thanks for all the advice so far. Really appreciate it.

I don't believe that you would be intermeddling if you accepted the £3000 going to you as a named beneficiary, providing that the pension company confirmed that it was being paid outside the estate (which I would expect it to be).

You also wouldn't be intermeddling if you enquired about the status of the other pension payments although I'm less certain that these will be outside the estate so you may need to be careful not to imply that you will accept them when making the enquiry.