Sorting a funeral, probable insolvent estate

Arge13

Hi, my father sadly passed away last week. I had very little contact with him for the last 10 years and I currently believe his estate could be insolvent. 

I want to do what I need to do but without intermeddling as there is no will that has been found and I'm reluctant to get myself deeply into this for an insolvent estate.

My first concern is I have removed paperwork from his flat to search for a will. I assume this wouldn't be intermeddling as I haven't acted on anything? I only intend to use this paperwork to notify the relevant people of his death and try to get the bank to pay the funds he does have directly to a funeral director. I believe this is also acceptable.

My next problem is clearing the flat so the landlord can re rent it. If I make an inventory and everything is next to worthless (which I believe it is) would this be intermeddling if I dispose of it or do I need to leave this to the landlord? Seems a bit horrible leaving it to them. There is also a car there with around £1000 value. If I removed this for safe keeping on my driveway and no one ever administered the estate would I be stuck with this indefinitely? In which case I would leave the car alone to be eventually removed by the authorities.

My last concern (for now anyway!) Is that I have found some pension paperwork with a named beneficiary on death as myself. This is a smallish payout of around £3000. There is another larger one that looks like it would pay to the estate the remainder of the 5 year payments but would be consumed by the debt it seems. If the smaller £3000 went directly to myself on notifying them of his death would I be seen to intermeddle or is this separate from the estate because of the named beneficiary on this one? 

Thanks in advance and sorry for the essay. A lot going on in my head right now. It's a real moral battle trying to sort things without putting yourself in the firing line.

Teapot55

My condolences on your loss, @Arge13.

If possible it might be an idea to make photocopies of the paperwork (or certainly the first page of anything extensive) and put them back in place with a note attached that you have the originals. 

Making a start on sorting the house out seems like a good thing to do, and thinking about the practical problems that would be faced by the landlord is also good and kind. Are there any possessions that could be seen as having sentimental value? I’m thinking of old photos, letters from relatives from long ago, maybe items of jewellery (even costume jewellery) that have previously been passed down. These are the things that need to be boxed up and kept for a while just in case. 

Having recently made a pension nomination on a new pension policy I do know that pensions come outside of any will. I think that also means they’re outside the estate. Someone on this forum more knowledgeable than me will likely confirm this. 

Although not an easy task by any means, sorting through the possessions of a deceased person does bring closure I’ve found. 

RAS

Arge13 said:

I want to do what I need to do but without intermeddling as there is no will that has been found and I'm reluctant to get myself deeply into this for an insolvent estate.

Why do you think this is an insolvent estate

There is also a car there with around £1000 value. 

Is that I have found some pension paperwork with a named beneficiary on death as myself. This is a smallish payout of around £3000. 

Money to nominees is outside the estate

There is another larger one that looks like it would pay to the estate the remainder of the 5 year payments but would be consumed by the debt it seems.

What Debt?

Sorry for your loss.

The situation is unclear from your post. Does the debt exceed the value of the bank + pension sum + car? After the funeral is paid although you might get a direct cremation for less than £1K, if that would be ok with you.

Arge13

Thanks for the replies. The debt far exceeds the estate. Even if the pension was paid into this and not to myself. 
 
It seems there is enough money (just about) in the bank for a funeral and they will release directly to the funeral directors. After that the estate will not clear up even a single debt, not even with the car being sold. There seems to be 3 debts on minimum repayment plans.

[Deleted User]

If there is not enough assets to clear the debt then the rest of the debt dies with him. You will not be left liable to clear the rest of his debt out of your own pocket if that is what you are worried about.

Arge13

If I understand correctly though I could be held liable if I administer the estate incorrectly up to the value of the estate? This is the reason I'm thinking if walking away from it all. I don't want to cause my self a legal headache if I don't need to. Then no one can come to me for any of it? Just want to be careful not to get involved to a point I can't walk from it 

[Deleted User]

Instruct a probate solicitor to deal with it, they will take their fee out of any assets first before distributing the rest to his creditors.

RAS

Thanks

In which case, you might collect together any paperwork that be useful in administering the estate, and box it up. I'd consider setting up a year's redirection on mail, not least as it means any personal mail from F&F gets to you. 

Then write, using his address, to the creditors and tell them the estate is insolvent but that you have the paperwork if they wish administer the estate, which they can obtain by writing to his old address. I think technically the estate could be administered to pay out pro-rata if all the creditors agree, but there's no reason why you should do the work.

Very unlikely you'll hear from them again but occasionally some do try and demand payment from the family. You are not liable.

Arge13

Thanks, that's the route I was thinking of taking. The paperwork is now sorted through and in a big box. 

Looks like I shouldn't really be moving the car though? I guess the authorities will eventually deal with moving this. I'm also still uncertain about clearing the flat. I want to for the landlord but if I go this route I think I need to make an inventory as everything is almost worthless or has very little worth.

RAS

To put it bluntly, when most people get probate for the purposes of inheritance tax they value the entire house contents as about £500, unless there is something really good on the walls or the deceased was a collector.

If I'd known that mum's "house sale" would fetch £600 after fees which barely covered the clearance, I'd have taken a few of the nicer bits that probably only raised £2 each. And she'd inherited some nice bits.

Your average domestic situation will cost money to clear. Was the local social services involved in any way prior to your father's death or whilst he was in hospital?

[Deleted User]

Move the car to your driveway for safe keeping especially if the landlord wants the property back if the rent is no longer being paid? The car is an asset even if it's only worth £1000. 

When our mother passed 15/16 years ago we used a probate solicitor even though we probably could have done everything ourselves. I think the fee was under £250 but seeing as it went on for 2 years I thought that was a reasonable fee. There was more than enough in the estate to cover all debts as there was property involved, but most of the smaller debts like CC balances etc just got wrote off when the death cert was produced even though they could have had their money.