Boiler Repairs - Am I being realistic?

LeeXenon

So I had my boiler installed by B**t in Jan 2021.

November 2021 a leak surfaces (This is when we had increased rainfall), 2 visits later ingress traced to the flue, job done until a few days later (Christmas Day), I get in at 4AM, cold house, error codes indicating PCB fault and water under the boiler again.

At this point I shut everything off, went outside and found another hole in the flue that wasn't covered up, put some tape over it in the meantime just in case that's where the water is getting in.

A couple of things here;

The installer promised callbacks 3 times on Christmas Day and didn't return the call, eventually they booked Worcester Bosch on Boxing day to come over today and have a look..

Worcester Bosch have been out and deemed the boiler unsafe due to installer error and potential for water ingress during rainfall.

B**t haven't been able to give a date for an engineer as yet (No doubt due to Christmas period, I understand!)

I've since turned on the boiler with the guidance of the Worcester Bosch engineer under the terms it isn't used when there's rain and it has given me some heating / hot water in the interim (Perhaps the PCB has dried up, so no error codes right now?), although when the leak does eventually get fixed, would I be in the right mind to ask for the affected electrical components to be replaced? I asked the Worcester Bosch engineer this question earlier and he basically said "If it's working at that moment I wouldn't bother". My mind is that water has been into contact with it, so it should be replaced?

I'm just asking if my expectations here are realistic or if I'm being fleeced. The Worcester engineer that came round also text me after leaving, verbatim: "Cover the flue or you will cause unnecessary damage to the boiler". Firstly, cover it with what? Secondly, why in the heck is this my problem?

I just wanted to check in with the community to see if I'm overreacting here, I'm not dealing with small independent traders but larger scale businesses who I feel really should have nipped this in the bud by now, instead I have the installation company and Worcester Bosch batting the job off to one another and a new unreliable boiler on the blink..

bris

You need to push BOXt to fix the issue, Worcester Bosch have the right to refuse because a bad installation will void the warranty.

The ideal solution was if you could get BOXt and Worcester together to come up with a solution between them.

Is this a vertical flue or horizontal?  Where are the holes in the flue? Is the flue actually damaged with holes or is it where it exits the building? Both outside and inside where the flue exits the building should be sealed, there is more than just water than can blow back into the building, there are internal and externel seals that come with the flue (horizontal) so it shouldnt have been an issue. If it is vertical they use a roof kit but that also should be rain tight.

They won't replace working parts, the PCb will be fine if it's working just now, the water will have missed the PCB and ran ito the tray below where it dried up.

LeeXenon

bris said:

You need to push BOXt to fix the issue, Worcester Bosch have the right to refuse because a bad installation will void the warranty.

The ideal solution was if you could get BOXt and Worcester together to come up with a solution between them.

Is this a vertical flue or horizontal?  Where are the holes in the flue? Is the flue actually damaged with holes or is it where it exits the building? Both outside and inside where the flue exits the building should be sealed, there is more than just water than can blow back into the building, there are internal and externel seals that come with the flue (horizontal) so it shouldnt have been an issue. If it is vertical they use a roof kit but that also should be rain tight.

They won't replace working parts, the PCb will be fine if it's working just now, the water will have missed the PCB and ran ito the tray below where it dried up.

The flue is horizontal with an added plume kit (Unneeded addition imo)
The holes I've mentioned are not from damage, there are two 1MM square holes that appear to be a part of the unit, a Boxt engineer had already attended a few days prior to the boiler failing and explained that he found a single hole that should have been covered. In this image I discovered another by using a torch on it at night.

The boiler then failed with fault codes 2923, followed by 2926 which did not go away with a reset - These fault codes as per the manual are due to a "PCB Fault", which I can only imagine is due to them being in contact with water. (This is why I hinted towards them needing to be replaced). The fault codes only went away conveniently a few days later when I fired up the boiler in front of the Worcester Bosch engineer, which is why I think any water has dried up on the PCB.

I still await contact from Boxt, I feel as though if the parts do not get replaced that perhaps I ask for some form of contractual agreement for them to offer extended cover for any parts exposed to water from failing in the future.

tacpot12

I have the same problem but with another make of boiler. Installation is two years old. Has leaked twice, second time more water got in and made it as far as the PCB, which caused the RCD protecting the crircuit supplying the boiler the trip. 

Issue was reported to the installer who came out, dried out the PCB and checked the flue, but pronounced it correctly installed. I inspected (in daylight), and there there is a small hole in the mortar around the outside of the flue, however this cannot be the source of the water ingress. If it were, the water would be on the outside of the boiler when in came inside the house. 

The installer says that there is nothing they can do, and said that it just happens sometimes when the wind is in the right direction and rain is of the right intensity. I have asked the manufactuer to comment as it appears to be a design issue with the flue terminal that allows driving rain to enter the air inlet portion of the flue (the outer section), but so far I have been ignored and I have not followed this up, but will do so in the new year. 

The issue never used to arise because boiler flues used to be installed sloping down towards the outside of the house, but modern condensing boilers need to capture all of the condensate, so the flues must slope down towards the boilers now. Most modern boilers seem to have a design fault in that, while they capture the condensate that flows down the inner portion of the flue and dump this via the condensate drain, they don't capture any water that flows down the outer portion of the flue to a seperate drain, it is just left swashing around inside the boiler.

The installer has assured me that the warranty will not be affected, but like you I am not happy that the root cause of the problem is not being fixed. Once the warranty is ended, I will still have water coming and potentially causing permanent damage to the PCB. 

As the installer is not willing to act, and the manufacturer has yet to account for the design flaw, I have fashioned a cover for the flue that is like a small porch - it looks like a smaller version of this https://www.leaderdoors.co.uk/liberty-doors-pitch-roof-porch-canopy-porch003-p74201/s188589

It has cost about £40 to build using timber and a PVC corrugated roofing sheet from Wickes. I've not managed to install it yet as the weather has been too bad lately, but when it is installed it will be installed at the distance above the flue required by the Building Regulations and Manufacturer's Instructions. 

I do understand that the work involved in fabricating this 'porch' isn't really the sort of work that a plumber or heating engineer would get involved in, but wish that the installer had at least offered it as a suggestion, e.g. they would oversee the installation of a cover and confirm that the boiler hadn't been affected by it. I also understand that if they oversee the change they are taking responsiblity for its safety and that it is not something they have a great deal of experience with, so I can understand their reticence. 

I am still considering my options on recourse, but until a solution is found, I don't see much point falling out with anyone.

In your case, Worcester Bosh have said there is a clear installation fault. The Boxt installer should come back to fix this and you should just keep calling Boxt until they do.  You should have asked the Worcester Bosch engineer to confirm exactly what the fault is. I think it is that the white portion of the flue should not be visible. The white paint is not generally UV stable, although  Baxi are now using UV-stable white paint and have changed their guidance ot say that the whote portion of the flue can be left exposed. The white paint degrades in sunlight, and eventually the flue rots at the bottom. The two square holes on either side of your flue are plugged by the black flue terminal and won't be allowing any water in, but you could put a dab of silicon over them to be sure.

I would encourage anyone having a new boiler fitted to get a twin pipe flue fitted (NOT a concentric flue) as the twin pipe system allows the air intake to be installed facing down so that water cannot be blown in - the downward section needs to be long enough to prevent wind-driven rain form being forced up the pipe, but it's a much better arrangement than a concentric flue. Some manufacturers have changed their concentric flue design to draw in fresh air from underneath, noteably Vaillant. Any flue where the fresh air is drawn in around the entire periphery of the inner flue seems more susceptible to wind-drive rain ingress.

The Health & Safety Exectuive provide a useful guide to the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 called "Safety in the installation and use of gas systems and appliances". You should read this if you are considering making any changes to the flue arrangements.