Chargeback

vskh

I made a successful chargeback against a company which did some work on my house. That company has now made a claim against me in the County Court. Can they do this and has it happened to anyone else?

eskbanker

Yes, they can do this, and yes, it will have happened to others who didn't really understand what chargeback is and isn't.

A successful chargeback doesn't actually resolve a dispute as such, it just gets your money back from the merchant via your card company, but if the merchant disagrees with the card company's assessment then they're quite entitled to pursue you for the debt, as Ryanair have done with numerous customers who claimed chargebacks that they weren't entitled to.  Whether a court will see it differently from the card company is another matter though - what's the full story?

zagfles

What was the chargeback for? Just because a chargeback is successful doesn't mean you don't owe the money, it could mean you just didn't authorise the payment.

For instance, if you paid the company a deposit by credit card, and on completion they just charged the balance to the same card which they kept details of, then unless you specifically agreed to it, it's an unauthorised transaction and a chargeback will be successful. But you still owe them the money, assuming they did what they you contracted them to do.

zagfles

eskbanker said:

Yes, they can do this, and yes, it will have happened to others who didn't really understand what chargeback is and isn't.

A successful chargeback doesn't actually resolve a dispute as such, it just gets your money back from the merchant via your card company, but if the merchant disagrees with the card company's assessment then they're quite entitled to pursue you for the debt, as Ryanair have done with numerous customers who claimed chargebacks that they weren't entitled to.  Whether a court will see it differently from the card company is another matter though - what's the full story?

Did Ryanair take customers to court? I thought they just tried to add the charge they thought they were owed to the next flight the customer booked? Rather than anything being decided by a court?

eskbanker

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

Yes, they can do this, and yes, it will have happened to others who didn't really understand what chargeback is and isn't.

A successful chargeback doesn't actually resolve a dispute as such, it just gets your money back from the merchant via your card company, but if the merchant disagrees with the card company's assessment then they're quite entitled to pursue you for the debt, as Ryanair have done with numerous customers who claimed chargebacks that they weren't entitled to.  Whether a court will see it differently from the card company is another matter though - what's the full story?

Did Ryanair take customers to court? I thought they just tried to add the charge they thought they were owed to the next flight the customer booked? Rather than anything being decided by a court?

I'm not aware of Ryanair taking customers to court for this, no, but was just meaning 'pursue the debt' in the broader sense, i.e. wanting it settled prior to subsequent flights, as you've described.  My reference to court related to the action initiated by OP's merchant....

zagfles

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

Yes, they can do this, and yes, it will have happened to others who didn't really understand what chargeback is and isn't.

A successful chargeback doesn't actually resolve a dispute as such, it just gets your money back from the merchant via your card company, but if the merchant disagrees with the card company's assessment then they're quite entitled to pursue you for the debt, as Ryanair have done with numerous customers who claimed chargebacks that they weren't entitled to.  Whether a court will see it differently from the card company is another matter though - what's the full story?

Did Ryanair take customers to court? I thought they just tried to add the charge they thought they were owed to the next flight the customer booked? Rather than anything being decided by a court?

I'm not aware of Ryanair taking customers to court for this, no, but was just meaning 'pursue the debt' in the broader sense, i.e. wanting it settled prior to subsequent flights, as you've described.  My reference to court related to the action initiated by OP's merchant....

Right, so that doesn't mean the customer wasn't entitled to the chargeback, or that they legally owe the money, just that Ryanair thought they did and so decided to add the charge to the next flight the customer the booked.

eskbanker

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

Yes, they can do this, and yes, it will have happened to others who didn't really understand what chargeback is and isn't.

A successful chargeback doesn't actually resolve a dispute as such, it just gets your money back from the merchant via your card company, but if the merchant disagrees with the card company's assessment then they're quite entitled to pursue you for the debt, as Ryanair have done with numerous customers who claimed chargebacks that they weren't entitled to.  Whether a court will see it differently from the card company is another matter though - what's the full story?

Did Ryanair take customers to court? I thought they just tried to add the charge they thought they were owed to the next flight the customer booked? Rather than anything being decided by a court?

I'm not aware of Ryanair taking customers to court for this, no, but was just meaning 'pursue the debt' in the broader sense, i.e. wanting it settled prior to subsequent flights, as you've described.  My reference to court related to the action initiated by OP's merchant....

Right, so that doesn't mean the customer wasn't entitled to the chargeback, or that they legally owe the money, just that Ryanair thought they did and so decided to add the charge to the next flight the customer the booked.

True, in as much as Ryanair's pursuit of the customers doesn't inherently mean that they weren't entitled to the chargebacks (I wasn't asserting that to be so), but in the cases publicised on here and elsewhere, the customers concerned had claimed refunds where the Ts & Cs (and prevailing legislation) didn't allow this.

zagfles

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

Yes, they can do this, and yes, it will have happened to others who didn't really understand what chargeback is and isn't.

A successful chargeback doesn't actually resolve a dispute as such, it just gets your money back from the merchant via your card company, but if the merchant disagrees with the card company's assessment then they're quite entitled to pursue you for the debt, as Ryanair have done with numerous customers who claimed chargebacks that they weren't entitled to.  Whether a court will see it differently from the card company is another matter though - what's the full story?

Did Ryanair take customers to court? I thought they just tried to add the charge they thought they were owed to the next flight the customer booked? Rather than anything being decided by a court?

I'm not aware of Ryanair taking customers to court for this, no, but was just meaning 'pursue the debt' in the broader sense, i.e. wanting it settled prior to subsequent flights, as you've described.  My reference to court related to the action initiated by OP's merchant....

Right, so that doesn't mean the customer wasn't entitled to the chargeback, or that they legally owe the money, just that Ryanair thought they did and so decided to add the charge to the next flight the customer the booked.

True, in as much as Ryanair's pursuit of the customers doesn't inherently mean that they weren't entitled to the chargebacks (I wasn't asserting that to be so), but in the cases publicised on here and elsewhere, the customers concerned had claimed refunds where the Ts & Cs (and prevailing legislation) didn't allow this.

The banks obviously disagreed as they allowed the chargebacks on authorised transactions. But anyway we probably shouldn't hijack the OPs thread further discussing this - full story here: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2021/10/repay-amounts-won-by-chargeback-or-you-can-t-board-your-upcoming/

eskbanker

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

Yes, they can do this, and yes, it will have happened to others who didn't really understand what chargeback is and isn't.

A successful chargeback doesn't actually resolve a dispute as such, it just gets your money back from the merchant via your card company, but if the merchant disagrees with the card company's assessment then they're quite entitled to pursue you for the debt, as Ryanair have done with numerous customers who claimed chargebacks that they weren't entitled to.  Whether a court will see it differently from the card company is another matter though - what's the full story?

Did Ryanair take customers to court? I thought they just tried to add the charge they thought they were owed to the next flight the customer booked? Rather than anything being decided by a court?

I'm not aware of Ryanair taking customers to court for this, no, but was just meaning 'pursue the debt' in the broader sense, i.e. wanting it settled prior to subsequent flights, as you've described.  My reference to court related to the action initiated by OP's merchant....

Right, so that doesn't mean the customer wasn't entitled to the chargeback, or that they legally owe the money, just that Ryanair thought they did and so decided to add the charge to the next flight the customer the booked.

True, in as much as Ryanair's pursuit of the customers doesn't inherently mean that they weren't entitled to the chargebacks (I wasn't asserting that to be so), but in the cases publicised on here and elsewhere, the customers concerned had claimed refunds where the Ts & Cs (and prevailing legislation) didn't allow this.

The banks obviously disagreed as they allowed the chargebacks on authorised transactions. But anyway we probably shouldn't hijack the OPs thread further discussing this - full story here: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2021/10/repay-amounts-won-by-chargeback-or-you-can-t-board-your-upcoming/

Yes, agreed that this is getting further from the topic, but it is relevant to OP's question here that banks aren't acting as judge and jury to form a view about the legitimacy or otherwise of a chargeback claim unless it's disputed by the merchant, and even if they did this isn't binding in any way.

As I understand it, the onus is on the merchant to dispute a chargeback if they wish to challenge it, but if they fail to do so within the nominated period (typically 45 days) then the chargeback is effectively allowed to stand by default (rather than on any actual consideration of its merits).

OP - if you're still reading after the above digression, did your merchant challenge the chargeback at the time?