Evidence for Council Tax appeal

Bedspring

Hi,

I am apealling my council tax, the VOA have rejected and I have appeal date.

The VOAs evidence is that my house is Band D and that other houses exactly like mine in the area are Band D, and they have cited 2 addresses.

I went to the Library and found one of the houses cited by the VOA, for sale in April 1991 for £67K.

I spoke to VOA officer and they said that £67K is on the border at £68K for band C/D and that the house might have sold for more.

The VOA as of yet have not actually supplied any house sale price data.

Any ideas on how I can get actual house prices from April 1991.

Kind regards

Steve

TheJP

If the other houses are the same size (number of bedrooms) and on a particular band then your stuck im afraid. The house i bought was band C but had an extension adding another bedroom, however after i bought it the band changed to D to reflect the two neighboruing houses. Has the house been modified at all?

Bedspring

I see your point, but the tax band is based on house prices in April 1991, not on what other houses are banded at. I have evidence of the house the voa have cited at a price in the lower band. They have cited no house price evidence, yet.

canaldumidi

https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do gives you price at time of last sale. If the house you found advertised in April 1991 went on to actually sell shortly thereafter, you could find out the actual sale price in, say, June/July 1991 which might help.

The only other way to get a market price for a specific historic date would be to pay an RICS surveyor to work it out based on his professional market knowledge, and write a report to submit to VOA. As it's merely 'professional opinion' they may or may not agree and accept it.

Submitting two such reports (assuming they agree!) would strengthen your appeal.

lincroft1710

I'm ex VOA and in the areas I dealt with, property prices were falling during 1991 and an August sale at £67K would suggest £70K or more in April. As CT has been around for over 28 years, reference to existing established bands ("tone of list") is common and accepted practice. RICS surveyors will be expensive and without evidence to back them up, their opinions will be dismissed by VOA.

The VOA  have details of actual sale prices of 99.9% of all property in England and Wales dating back many decades. 

TheJP

Bedspring said:

I see your point, but the tax band is based on house prices in April 1991, not on what other houses are banded at. I have evidence of the house the voa have cited at a price in the lower band. They have cited no house price evidence, yet.

Bands can change when a house is sold, as what happened to me as my property changed size since it was first banded. It was based on the size of my neighbouring houses. This is what the VOA told me.

canaldumidi

lincroft1710 said:

I'm ex VOA and in the areas I dealt with, property prices were falling during 1991 and an August sale at £67K would suggest £70K or more in April. As CT has been around for over 28 years, reference to existing established bands ("tone of list") is common and accepted practice. RICS surveyors will be expensive and without evidence to back them up, their opinions will be dismissed by VOA.

The VOA  have details of actual sale prices of 99.9% of all property in England and Wales dating back many decades. 

But presumably the actual sales prices VOA has are from the Land Registry, so also available to us common folk? And although the LR only lists the last sale on their website, there are many commercial websites that have stored, and make available, historic sales prices too.

The difficulty then is relating a price paid at a specific sale date, to the value on the date the CT was set.

Does the VOA take a different approach to HMRC regarding this value judgement?

When my mother died, we had to value her house on date of death for Inheritance Tax. We paid a RICS surveyor (around £100?) for a report supporting our valuation on the IHT form. This gave not just a valuation, but also his reasoning backed up by prices paid for similar local properties around the same date.

HMRC accepted this, though it was stated they had the right to refer the valuation to the 'District Valuer' - which they may or may not have done.

Does VOA not take a similar approach?

lincroft1710

canaldumidi said:

lincroft1710 said:

I'm ex VOA and in the areas I dealt with, property prices were falling during 1991 and an August sale at £67K would suggest £70K or more in April. As CT has been around for over 28 years, reference to existing established bands ("tone of list") is common and accepted practice. RICS surveyors will be expensive and without evidence to back them up, their opinions will be dismissed by VOA.

The VOA  have details of actual sale prices of 99.9% of all property in England and Wales dating back many decades. 

But presumably the actual sales prices VOA has are from the Land Registry, so also available to us common folk? And although the LR only lists the last sale on their website, there are many commercial websites that have stored, and make available, historic sales prices too.

The difficulty then is relating a price paid at a specific sale date, to the value on the date the CT was set.

Does the VOA take a different approach to HMRC regarding this value judgement?

When my mother died, we had to value her house on date of death for Inheritance Tax. We paid a RICS surveyor (around £100?) for a report supporting our valuation on the IHT form. This gave not just a valuation, but also his reasoning backed up by prices paid for similar local properties around the same date.

HMRC accepted this, though it was stated they had the right to refer the valuation to the 'District Valuer' - which they may or may not have done.

Does VOA not take a similar approach?

Only house sale prices from 1994 onwards are in the public domain.


The VOA is part of HMRC as is the DV which is a branch of the VOA.


The VOA will look at bands of existing similar properties and also any relevant 1991 sales info plus evidence from settled appeals. So if you buy 26 Acacia Avenue.a 95 sq metre 1985 built 3 bed semi in Band D and identical houses 6, 8, 16 and 22 AA have had their appeals settled at Band D, the VOA will use these settled appeals to suggest that Band D is correct.


 Non LR house price websites cannot be relied upon. One had my house purchase price, 3 times what I actually paid!

Bedspring

lincroft1710 said:

Only house sale prices from 1994 onwards are in the public domain.


The VOA is part of HMRC as is the DV which is a branch of the VOA.


The VOA will look at bands of existing similar properties and also any relevant 1991 sales info plus evidence from settled appeals. So if you buy 26 Acacia Avenue.a 95 sq metre 1985 built 3 bed semi in Band D and identical houses 6, 8, 16 and 22 AA have had their appeals settled at Band D, the VOA will use these settled appeals to suggest that Band D is correct.

Non LR house price websites cannot be relied upon. One had my house purchase price, 3 times what I actually paid!

My house is on a development and there were appeals in the past, not I my style of house,  but so far the VOA have refused to show any information from those appeals. I believe that there are 5 styles of house on my development , and all the houses were banded at D, when some should have been C.

Are you saying that the VOA have access to sold house prices, that I do not, ie prior to 1994, they have not offered any as yet.

lincroft1710

Bedspring said:

lincroft1710 said:

Only house sale prices from 1994 onwards are in the public domain.


The VOA is part of HMRC as is the DV which is a branch of the VOA.


The VOA will look at bands of existing similar properties and also any relevant 1991 sales info plus evidence from settled appeals. So if you buy 26 Acacia Avenue.a 95 sq metre 1985 built 3 bed semi in Band D and identical houses 6, 8, 16 and 22 AA have had their appeals settled at Band D, the VOA will use these settled appeals to suggest that Band D is correct.

Non LR house price websites cannot be relied upon. One had my house purchase price, 3 times what I actually paid!

My house is on a development and there were appeals in the past, not I my style of house,  but so far the VOA have refused to show any information from those appeals. I believe that there are 5 styles of house on my development , and all the houses were banded at D, when some should have been C.

Are you saying that the VOA have access to sold house prices, that I do not, ie prior to 1994, they have not offered any as yet.

Because of an archaic ruling concerning disclosure of house prices, the VOA will only provide details of sales when a date for a Valuation Tribunal hearing has been advised. All the evidence they intend to submit at the VT hearing will be advised at the same time, rather than in separate bits. You can also ask for details of other relevant sales, but there is a limit on the number you can ask for.

However if you were out of time to appeal and had basically just asked for a band review, the VOA could not disclose sale prices and would have no obligation to disclose any other information.

The VOA (and its predecessors) have been receiving sales information on all property/land sold in England and Wales from the Land Registry and previous to that the Stamps Office for 110 years. The public has no right to this information other than as referred to above

Bedspring

Just an update. It did not go to appeal eventually. I assume the VOA rechecked my evidence. Anyways my council tax is going down. 

Its well worth doing, not really that hard. Just go to your library and scan through Estate Agent adds looking for houses similar to your own March, April, May 1991.

The VOA and VTO are friendly enough.

Thanks for help from the Forum