UKPC court case from a 2016 PCN

Quantum65

Hi team,

I have gone through the newbies thread and followed the instructions up to this point (i.e. once a claim has been received). I've never actually appealed the PCN and I hadn't heard anything for a few years, but I guess this is a last ditch attempt at recouping funds as I've heard a lot of people from my university are getting these very old claims coming through now. I've requested SAR, completed AoS and have begun to draft a defence. I'm currently on the adapting section 2 and 3 part, but I am not sure where to specifically focus my defence on.

Context:

The PCN is from a university car park for a supposed contravention that occurred in 2016. I don't actually think I was driving the vehicle (but was the keeper) as I vaguely recall lending my car and I wasn't actually a student of the university the year that the PCN was issued - the only thing is that I can't say for sure due to how long ago this happened! I also vaguely recall appealing a different PCN passing on the driver's details at a similar time, but again this is from 5 and a half years ago so my timeline may be a little muddled. The charge was for reason 'Parking without a valid permit'.

I had moved address since this PCN was issued, and it was very challenging to get letters sent to my current address. Some of the debt recovery agencies had point blank refused my old landlord's request to change the correspondence address until I had sent them 2 proofs of my address - this stressed the landlord out (and in turn me!) as DCBL have incredibly long waiting lines to finally speak to someone, and I did eventually manage to get them to finally start sending letters to my correct address. Not sure if this paragraph is worth adding?

Any additional feedback for how to adapt these 2 sections would be much appreciated! Please do let me know if you need further details.

Thanks!

Quantum65

Just to clarify this line: "I also vaguely recall appealing a different PCN passing on the driver's details at a similar time"

It was a different PCN that was issued at the same university car park, and after passing on the driver's details (with their permission as they were very sorry that they got a ticket issued on my car) UKPC left me alone after that. One of the reasons that I didn't appeal this current claim was that I thought it was the same one!

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Upon what date did you file an Acknowledgment of Service?
Your MCOL Claim History will have the definitive answer to that.

Redx

Use a 2021 Defence example for Highview Parking or C P Plus for paragraph 2 , one that says keeper , driver unknown due to multiple drivers , liability is denied

The latter queries can be used in a witness statement in several months time , but isn't a defence point , so adapt paragraph 2 and draft a proper defence for paragraph 3 , after reading other defences first , plus read comments on other threads by Coupon mad and other regular posters on here

So 2 will take you 10 minutes , 3 needs plenty of research , by you

Jenni_D

Agree with the above.

And the answers to @KeithP's questions are important as this will allow him to provide you with some information with personal context.  

Quantum65

Thanks everyone.

The issue date was December 6th, and I submitted AoS on December 8th (I only later realised I should have waited until day 5 but was stressed and wanted to get paperwork complete).

Jenni_D

I'm sure @KeithP will correct me, but I reckon that gives you until 4pm on Thursday 6th January 2022 to file your defence? (I was going to say Wed 5th but I'm not sure whether the Monday bank holiday needs to be excluded from the time frame).

Edit: I'm also forgetting the Mon/Tues bank holidays next week, so your date may even by Mon 10th Jan.

KeithP

Quantum65 said:

The issue date was December 6th, and I submitted AoS on December 8th (I only later realised I should have waited until day 5 but was stressed and wanted to get paperwork complete).

With a Claim Issue Date of 6th December, and having filed an Acknowledgment of Service on 8th December, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 5th January 2022 to file your Defence.

That's over two weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look at the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Don't miss the deadline for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Quantum65

Thanks for all of the input team, super helpful! This is what I've drafted so far:

2.       It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but driver is unknown due to multiple drivers and liability is denied. 

 

3.  i) It is disputed that any of the Claimant’s Notices to Driver (NTD) complied with POFA. Nowhere on the received notices does it specify the period of parking, this information is left out for all PCNs, which contradicts Sch. 4 Paragraph 7 2a, the NTK must specify the period of parking to which the notice relates.

ii) It is disputed that any of the Claimant’s Notices to Keeper (NTK) complied with POFA. Nowhere on the received notices does it specify the period of parking, this information is left out for all PCNs, which contradicts Sch. 4 Paragraph 8 2a, the NTK must specify the period of parking to which the notice relates.

Is this the sort of right way to go about this? Also from my SAR, I have copies of the NTK and NTD (windscreen ticket) but none of them have the actual signage from the issue date. The NTK had a URL where it says more images are available but my PCN doesn't come up on the website anymore (message says passed to debt collectors and no longer available to view). This means that I don't have a copy of the signage to refer to in my defence. Is this something worth mentioning?

Fruitcake

Don't use sub paragraph numbering. Make it all just para 3.

As you have correctly done for NTD and NTK, you should also spell out what PoFA means the first time you refer to it.

Should NTK below read NTD?

3.  i) It is disputed that any of the Claimant’s Notices to Driver (NTD) complied with POFA. Nowhere on the received notices does it specify the period of parking, this information is left out for all PCNs, which contradicts Sch. 4 Paragraph 7 2a, the NTK must specify the period of parking to which the notice relates.

An SAR entitles you to see what personal data the PPC holds on you. Images of signs are not personal data. You'll get to see images of the signs they intend to rely on at the WS/Exhibits stage.

Have you complained to the landowner and your MP yet? It is never too late to get a landowner cancellation.

Is Google Streetview (GSV) of any use as sometimes you can view historic images?

Where did the alleged event occur as the site may have cropped up here before? GPS coordinates or a GSV link would be useful.

Quantum65

Thank you, I've amended as below:

3.  It is disputed that any of the Claimant’s Notices to Driver (NTD) complied with the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA). Nowhere on the received notices does it specify the period of parking, this information is left out for all PCNs, which contradicts Sch. 4 Paragraph 7 2a, the NTD must specify the period of parking to which the notice relates. It is disputed that any of the Claimant’s Notices to Keeper (NTK) complied with POFA. Nowhere on the received notices does it specify the period of parking, this information is left out for all PCNs, which contradicts Sch. 4 Paragraph 8 2a, the NTK must specify the period of parking to which the notice relates.

This happened on Brunel University campus parking (Cleveland Road): www.instantstreetview.com/@51.533923,-0.476404,271.28h,-1.97p,2.74z,f95gkHsEb_h9FqjWg9_veQ 

I haven't complained to them directly yet, but I'll give it a shot if there's a chance this can still go away. In the meantime, in terms of the section 3 defence, does this seem like a reasonable amount for this section or do these generally have more points? I understand every case is different, but just wondering if I don't find further points in the threads, if this is somewhat adequate?