Received a Claim Form for an ANPR "fine" for £260.00, and don't think there's much of a defense?

mylampisonthetable

An ANPR camera snapped pictures of the vehicle staying for six hours in a car park when four were permitted. The Claim Form is from BW Legal who are acting on behalf of Premier Park Limited. The amount of the claim includes the "fine", interest, court fee (£35) and legal representative's costs (£50), totalling £260. I'm not sure much of a defense is possible, as the vehicle did overstay in the car park. However, I am unhappy about the large amount of money being claimed versus the actual cost of the additional hours of parking.

My options appear to be as follows:

1) Acknowledge the claim, make a defense, and hope to win (even though I am quite pessimistic).

2) Try to negotiate paying less than £260.

3) Just pay the whole amount now to prevent costs rising even further.

For clarity, all letters (including debt collection letters) have been completely ignored up to this point.

I'm amenable to #2. Ideally I'd just pay a very small amount. However, I am not sure if this would fly or be worthwhile to try to negotiate.

There's a lot of great content on this site in regards to defending a claim where there are mitigating factors. I suppose the question I am asking is - what if there are none? What if the vehicle did overstay, signs were clear...etc and the only defense possible is a generic one?

Happy to take advice and post pictures etc but to begin with I just want some frank advice about how to proceed, my chances etc.

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

Before you decide which of those three options to choose, I'll just say that option 2 won't work.

Also worth noting that even if you were to lose a court case you would be unlikely to be paying anything like £260.

Please tell us the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form.

D_P_Dance

As his is a scam surely the answer is a no brainer.

Snakes_Belly

It all depends on whether the judge thinks that a contract was formed between the driver and the PPC. If the signage was unclear then you will have a defence. If there is no authority between the landowner and the PPC the claim could be dismissed.  

What caused the overstay?

When the new CoP comes into force the amount of the PCN could be as low as £25.00 providing you paid straight away.  

D_P_Dance

Signage is one one leg, there is timeliness cintract, compliance, etc., et., etc.  Do you reaklly want to fsll for a scam when you have a good chance of giving them a bloody nose in court?...

95Rollers

mylampisonthetable said:

My options appear to be as follows:

1) Acknowledge the claim, make a defense, and hope to win (even though I am quite pessimistic).

2) Try to negotiate paying less than £260.

3) Just pay the whole amount now to prevent costs rising even further.

I'm amenable to #2. Ideally I'd just pay a very small amount. However, I am not sure if this would fly or be worthwhile to try to negotiate.

Option 2 is NOT an option as these parasites won't take anything less than what they are demanding!  They only tend to make "settlement" offers or offer "Mediation" if they don't fancy their chances in court based on your defence or witness statement evidence. And again they'll still want the moon on a stick!!!

Option 1 is your BEST bet as you said yourself there is a lot of issues and areas of contention with this site so use that if applicable . Even IF you were to lose in you'd pay far less than shst they are demanding as Judges will knock off their unlawful "debt collectors fees"/ "admin fees" and "VAT administration fees" or whatever they masquerade these unlawful add-ons as this week!!!  Which is why OPTION 3 is not an option!  

Snakes_Belly

From memory the worst case scenario under the new CoP the recommended amount would be £25.00 for an overstay if paid immediately. I would certainly give that a mention in any defence.  

Coupon-mad

Same question asked and answered here already, just a day before you asked:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78825258#Comment_78825258

It is like Groundhog Day on this forum sometimes but your username is new and different, made me smile!

mylampisonthetable

OK, so I'm going to address everyone's comments/questions since my original post. I should say at the start that I really don't want to be paying more than £260 as a consequence of taking it any further, so please do level with me and tell me whether that is a possibility before I proceed.

That said,

> Please tell us the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form

3rd December, currently nothing has been done about it. I think I have until the 22nd to acknowledge it at least.

> As (t)his is a scam surely the answer is a no brainer.

Do judges ever decide in favour of parking companies and their "scammy" fees? Would a poor defense likely result in me having to pay it all (or more)? If so, then it would be an effective scam. What about me having never responded to the letters they've sent out? Would the judge decide that that's an aggrevating factor?

> If the signage was unclear then you will have a defence.

Signage was very clear about the amount of time allowed but like always, the Ts & Cs were in small print and you'd have to walk up to a sign to see them. I personally feel that's pretty weak, but I am open to suggestions.

> If there is no authority between the landowner and the PPC the claim could be dismissed. 

Presumably the land owner has requested that the PPC take charge of the car park and be allowed to extract these sorts of fees from those who overstay? At least, in a basic sense, the land over would not object to it. However I have not explored it legally.

> What caused the overstay?

Nothing virtuous. The car was in the car park and the person who drove it did a day's work in an office. The car park is for shoppers.

> When the new CoP comes into force the amount of the PCN could be as low as £25.00 providing you paid straight away.

When does the CoP come into play? If too far in the future, is this one of the main features of my prospective defense?

> Option 2 is NOT an option as these parasites won't take anything less than what they are demanding!

Well, good to know I guess! Thanks for the info.

> Even IF you were to lose in you'd pay far less than shst they are demanding

Likely figure?

While I'm at it - if I provided NO defense would they simply get the full amount? I suspect they would?

What might be the award to the parking company if I lose despite providing a defense? Would it be for the sum minus the extras (I.E. £177)?

> [CoP] I would certainly give that a mention in any defence.

I'm collecting things for my denense and I'll include this in my collection. I should emphasise that I have nothing special I can bring for a defense other than perhaps a generic defense. Would such a "generic" defense have a good chance of winning? If so, why don't most people respond with a generic defense?

> Same question asked and answered here already, just a day before you asked

I'll check out the other thread thanks.

Finally, whatever happens - even if I stumble and pay it all off - I will update this thread until it's all over and let you know the outcome. This means that if I win I will let you know. If I lose I will let you know. If I just pay it off to end the pain, again, I will give an update.

Redx

If you lost in court , a typical loss is about £200 for one PCN invoice ! , Pay it in full ASAP , definitely within the 30 days grace period , to swerve any CCJ being recorded for 6 years

If the total amount claimed is £260 , then as long as you are not unreasonable in your dealings with the case and claimant , it won't go up , so act reasonably

The coupon mad template defence is a generic defence , with little input required from you

There is no S in the word Defence !  😁😁😁

The New government CoP comes into play next summer , it's not retrospective , so won't assist you

The_Slithy_Tove

mylampisonthetable said:

The amount of the claim includes the "fine", interest, court fee (£35) and legal representative's costs (£50), totalling £260.

That would imply the "fine", as you put it, was £175 minus interest, which it clearly wasn't (probably £100). So they are claiming some £70+ more than they are entitled to. You will, of course, be pointing out such fraudulent behaviour in your court submissions.