Courier company took our items instead of their customer’s

user1977

NBLondon said:

user1977 said:

Well, it's up to the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the crime was committed, and the defence might be able to put sufficient doubt in the court's mind about it - particularly if they can prove they were making a legitimate pickup from the neighbours, it wasn't clear whose items they were, etc.

Given the OP tells us the items were loose equipment (so not packed for transit)  and not in the same line of business as the intended pickup site then it's at least criminal negligence in picking up something that doesn't match what the courier was sent to collect and then more so in losing the item in transit or allowing it to be stolen.

No such thing as "criminal negligence" in relation to couriers incompetently picking up / losing parcels (if there was, they'd all be in jail!).

Ergates

user1977 said:

Ergates said:

user1977 said:

It's not a crime if there's no criminal intent -

If there is evidence that they took the items, I think it would be on them to prove there was no criminal intent.
"Yes, we took the items and never returned them, but it was a mistake.  Honest. "

Well, it's up to the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the crime was committed, and the defence might be able to put sufficient doubt in the court's mind about it - particularly if they can prove they were making a legitimate pickup from the neighbours, it wasn't clear whose items they were, etc.

If it went to court, yes - my point was that it could still cause the courier company a *lot* of bother if the police get involved (and can be bothered to look into it) as it wouldn't necessarily be immediately dismissed as a mistake.  I don't know about anyone else, but I think the prospect of being interviewed by the police would give me an additional incentive to pull my thumb out and fix an issue that I'd caused.

theoretica

Much of the discussion here takes the couriers at their word that the stuff was packed up and sent on to the intended recipients - who says they only got what they expected.  I am imagining the potential for a single employee to pick up stuff they weren't supposed to and then disguise the matter by boxing up and sending off something else to the final recipient - so everyone is busy chasing after a box of red herrings while they walk off with the loot.  So potentially, yes, the courier company may have lost the goods - but also potentially the pick up courier never put the stuff into the system.

bmxsummoner

theoretica said:

Much of the discussion here takes the couriers at their word that the stuff was packed up and sent on to the intended recipients - who says they only got what they expected.  I am imagining the potential for a single employee to pick up stuff they weren't supposed to and then disguise the matter by boxing up and sending off something else to the final recipient - so everyone is busy chasing after a box of red herrings while they walk off with the loot.  So potentially, yes, the courier company may have lost the goods - but also potentially the pick up courier never put the stuff into the system.

That’s the thing: the receiving customer saying they received what they expected was a claim the manager depot didn’t repeat once I raised the spectre of reporting police and I had their customer complaints rep involved — he (depot manager) changed tact and conceded it arrived at his depot and only went as far as say it was seen on their cctv being loaded onto their van on route to another depot 4 hours away. Receiving depot says — this is now 2 days after it left depot of origin — that they haven’t received my items.

I am left to think someone somewhere in that company after learning my items weren’t actually (or were no longer) on their system, either took them or disposed of them. So while it may not have been theft in the first instance of their driver taking my items from our site, it may very well be in the time it was in their possession. 

MalMonroe

You say "A courier company driver took some equipment of ours by mistake — he was supposed to pick up for another company."

It doesn't make sense at all because every time a courier calls to collect parcels from our property, they have to scan a bar code on the parcel or they are unable to remove the parcel. In every single case. Even when it's Royal Mail (we love their collection service). 

One day Hermes (I know they get a lot of stick on here but I've always been very happy with their service) came to collect a parcel from us and the code wouldn't scan. The driver apologised profusely but said he couldn't take the parcel because there wouldn't be any record of it as he couldn't get the scanner to work. He had to report it to the office and then they had to change the barcode number so he came again the following day and was able to scan and then remove the parcel. 

In your case there's no trail because there was no initial barcode. Ergo, no proof. But couriers don't just pick up bits and pieces of equipment and take them away. That's just crazy. 

So in your case, there has been a theft. And it needs to be reported to the police properly and they need to take it seriously and issue a crime number. If you have the details on CCTV then the police do need to see that footage, obviously. 

You have been patient long enough and now it's time to take action. 

DB1904

theoretica said:

I think it might be crime reference number time - someone came to your site and walked off with your stuff.  You tried to sort it informally, but now need to focus their minds.

Was that person acting dishonesty or was it an error?

DB1904

NBLondon said:

user1977 said:

Well, it's up to the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the crime was committed, and the defence might be able to put sufficient doubt in the court's mind about it - particularly if they can prove they were making a legitimate pickup from the neighbours, it wasn't clear whose items they were, etc.

Given the OP tells us the items were loose equipment (so not packed for transit)  and not in the same line of business as the intended pickup site then it's at least criminal negligence in picking up something that doesn't match what the courier was sent to collect and then more so in losing the item in transit or allowing it to be stolen.

Needs to be dishonest for it to be theft. 

sheramber

How did the courier carry these loose items to his van?  Did he carry them loose or box them up?

Sandtree

NBLondon said:

user1977 said:

Well, it's up to the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the crime was committed, and the defence might be able to put sufficient doubt in the court's mind about it - particularly if they can prove they were making a legitimate pickup from the neighbours, it wasn't clear whose items they were, etc.

Given the OP tells us the items were loose equipment (so not packed for transit)  and not in the same line of business as the intended pickup site then it's at least criminal negligence in picking up something that doesn't match what the courier was sent to collect and then more so in losing the item in transit or allowing it to be stolen.

Do you think the courier... as in the guy physically doing the job... has a clue about what he is picking up? Would have thought most courier firms would actually want to keep them in the dark so that the boxes containing high cost tech, jewellery etc cannot be easily identified for "losing"

MalMonroe said:

It doesn't make sense at all because every time a courier calls to collect parcels from our property, they have to scan a bar code on the parcel or they are unable to remove the parcel. In every single case. Even when it's Royal Mail (we love their collection service).  

Look at any of the courier comparison sites @malmonroe and you will see almost half offer a "no printer" option. In these cases the courier comes with preprinted labels, they attach them to the items and then scan their own barcode.

So yes they do have to scan something but the courier potentially had what they needed to scan from the start of their shift.


To the OP - you dont mention any conversations with the place where the collection should have happened from yet?

bmxsummoner

To the OP - you dont mention any conversations with the place where the collection should have happened from yet?

I didn’t see the point in talking to the sender with whom the courier company have had a booking. Also, as I have said, the collecting depot have already admitted, at least eventually, to taking the wrong items — this isn’t merely the issue. After what I believe is them trying to put me off chasing my items by saying the receiving customer claimed he received the correct items, to eventually dropping that claim and admitting that my items were indeed taken by their driver and passed through their network, the other issue is their not able or wanting to tell me where my items are currently. It left their depot on Wednesday, in one of their vans, to be dropped off their next depot 4-hours away. Next depot says they haven’t received them. That’s the last I heard and the courier company doesn’t seem to want to update me anymore, not even a whiff of compensation being offered just to save everyone the trouble.

I don’t believe the company with whom the courier have the collection booked is able to shed light on the matter of my items’ whereabouts. At any rate, this has now been reported to the police.