John Lewis offloading warranty to Manufacturer

CardinalWolsey

What others have perhaps missed is that you should always contact the retailer first, because as you say they are who you have the contract with. However, make that contact via email / phone / webchat etc and keep a log or ask for a call reference. This is because whilst they will invariably route you direct to the manufacturer, you want a record of having given the retailer the opportunity to resolve directly. This is important with regards to future "failed attempts" to repair etc. If you go direct to the manufacturer without having involved the retailer, you are in a worse legal position to enforce your consumer rights.

neilmcl

Chickereeeee said:

neilmcl said:

Ergates said:

Chickereeeee said:

30 days were up last Thursday. Or IN Thursday, if you prefer.... :-)

You're in the > 30 days, but < 6 months period.  This means that JL should assume it's an inherent fault unless they can show otherwise.   JL are entitled to 1 attempt at repairing it - which can be done via the warrantee, so they're within their rights to ask you to send it to Bosch.

If Bosch can't fix it, or the fault reoccurs within a short time, then you can reject it for a replacement or a refund.

No, they're not. Their legal obligation is to deal with the issue and the manufacturer themselves, although the result will likely be the same.

This is really my point. This happens  to be a low price item, but I am annoyed at the principle.

As far as I know, the Consumer Rights Act says JL should be responsible for dealing with issues within the first year, at least. Irrespective of any manufacturers warranty. My sales contract is with JL. 

(Variable temp kettles are very useful for making coffee from ground beans, and various teas, which need temperatures between 80-95c. Coffee tastes bitter if made at 100c)

But as I said, the result, ie, being without your fancy kettle for a few weeks whilst it's being repaired, will likely be the same regardless of whether JL take on their legal responsibility of dealing with it.

Ergates

Chickereeeee said:

neilmcl said:

Ergates said:

Chickereeeee said:

30 days were up last Thursday. Or IN Thursday, if you prefer.... :-)

You're in the > 30 days, but < 6 months period.  This means that JL should assume it's an inherent fault unless they can show otherwise.   JL are entitled to 1 attempt at repairing it - which can be done via the warrantee, so they're within their rights to ask you to send it to Bosch.

If Bosch can't fix it, or the fault reoccurs within a short time, then you can reject it for a replacement or a refund.

No, they're not. Their legal obligation is to deal with the issue and the manufacturer themselves, although the result will likely be the same.

This is really my point. This happens  to be a low price item, but I am annoyed at the principle.

As far as I know, the Consumer Rights Act says JL should be responsible for dealing with issues within the first year, at least. Irrespective of any manufacturers warranty. My sales contract is with JL. 

(Variable temp kettles are very useful for making coffee from ground beans, and various teas, which need temperatures between 80-95c. Coffee tastes bitter if made at 100c)

You bought the Kettle online though, so any resolution would likely involve putting it into a box and sending it somewhere (either a courier picking it up, or you taking it to the post office).   You returning the item to a physical JL store would likely be significantly less convenient than taking it to the nearest post-office (and even less convenient than a courier picking it up from your house).

Whether the address on the label is a JL repair centre, some other JL place of business or a Bosch repair centre is largely immaterial - other than the latter option will result in a quicker turn-around for you.  You shouldn't have to pay for postage - so either JL or Bosch should provide you with a pre-paid postage label or some such thing.

I'm not clear on what you mean by JL being "responsible for dealing with issues" - what is it, other than the solution with which you have been provided, would you like JL to do?

neilmcl

Ergates said:

Chickereeeee said:

neilmcl said:

Ergates said:

Chickereeeee said:

30 days were up last Thursday. Or IN Thursday, if you prefer.... :-)

You're in the > 30 days, but < 6 months period.  This means that JL should assume it's an inherent fault unless they can show otherwise.   JL are entitled to 1 attempt at repairing it - which can be done via the warrantee, so they're within their rights to ask you to send it to Bosch.

If Bosch can't fix it, or the fault reoccurs within a short time, then you can reject it for a replacement or a refund.

No, they're not. Their legal obligation is to deal with the issue and the manufacturer themselves, although the result will likely be the same.

This is really my point. This happens  to be a low price item, but I am annoyed at the principle.

As far as I know, the Consumer Rights Act says JL should be responsible for dealing with issues within the first year, at least. Irrespective of any manufacturers warranty. My sales contract is with JL. 

(Variable temp kettles are very useful for making coffee from ground beans, and various teas, which need temperatures between 80-95c. Coffee tastes bitter if made at 100c)

You bought the Kettle online though, so any resolution would likely involve putting it into a box and sending it somewhere (either a courier picking it up, or you taking it to the post office).   You returning the item to a physical JL store would likely be significantly less convenient than taking it to the nearest post-office (and even less convenient than a courier picking it up from your house).

Whether the address on the label is a JL repair centre, some other JL place of business or a Bosch repair centre is largely immaterial - other than the latter option will result in a quicker turn-around for you.  You shouldn't have to pay for postage - so either JL or Bosch should provide you with a pre-paid postage label or some such thing.

I'm not clear on what you mean by JL being "responsible for dealing with issues" - what is it, other than the solution with which you have been provided, would you like JL to do?

I suspect what he wants is JL just to go ahead and give him a replacement or refund 😉

Manxman_in_exile

There seem to have been a lot of complaints about very poor (and plain wrong!) JL customer services lately.  I understand some people have had these resolved by contacting the head of JL customer services by email:

"Escalated Complaints Process

If you've contacted us and you feel that we haven't resolved your complaint satisfactorily, please email or write to our Head of Customer Service Team:

Email: Head_of_Customer_Service@johnlewis.co.uk

Write: Customer Relations Department, John Lewis & Partners, PO Box 3586, Glasgow G73 9DW"

Tell them you've bought this kettle within the last two months* (or whatever it is), that it's developed a fault and that it is JL's responsibility to sort out under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as the fault is legally deemed to be inherent as it manifested itself within 6 months of purchase (s19 of said Act).

Tell them that you have already tried to explain this to their CS team, but that they have refused to accept their responsibility under the law and have instead tried to fob you off with a warranty claim.

Explain that your preference is for a refund or replacement before Christmas as you don't want to be without this "special" kettle** over Christmas and because JL's own CS have already delayed this process unnecessarily by trying to evade responsibility for the fault.

(If you want to push it - suggest their whole CS team needs retraining in Consumer Rights legislation, but don't expect this too happen!)

*FWIW, I also would have interpreted "last November" to mean last year and not "last month" which would have been clearer.  Did you tell JL that you had bought it this November as opposed to last November?

** The problem with "special" bits of kit like variable temperature kettles is that there's a lot more to break or go wrong.

[Edit:  I've just edited the bit above referring to the Consumer Rights Act so it now makes sense!]

Exodi

CardinalWolsey said:

What others have perhaps missed is that you should always contact the retailer first, because as you say they are who you have the contract with. However, make that contact via email / phone / webchat etc and keep a log or ask for a call reference. This is because whilst they will invariably route you direct to the manufacturer, you want a record of having given the retailer the opportunity to resolve directly. This is important with regards to future "failed attempts" to repair etc. If you go direct to the manufacturer without having involved the retailer, you are in a worse legal position to enforce your consumer rights.

Oh come on, really... To what end? So the OP can take John Lewis to court over a cheap kettle (OP's description)?

He's not letting them repair it either, because then he would without a kettle, and that's probably a breach of his human rights. Maybe he should just take them directly to court in Strasbourg?

Jenni_D

Put water in standard kettle
Let it boil
Wait a couple of minutes before pouring

Voila, water at 80-95c  

photome

Jenni_D said:

Put water in standard kettle
Let it boil
Wait a couple of minutes before pouring

Voila, water at 80-95c  

It can take up to 5 minutes to cool down to 85. not many people would want to wait that long, and thats not really the point ,if you have a variable temp kettle it should work

I stop mine before it boils as I agree with the OP that making coffee with boiling water is wrong

Chickereeeee

An update on this (ignoring discussions on the item itself).

I waited until after Christmas to deal with kettle. When I tried to contact Bosch, their normal phone line did not offer an option which applied to me, and when I tried the 'online sales' option, it just said 'there is a technical fault' and dropped out.

I then contacted JL for the proper Bosch number to call, and was told "I can deal with that for you. Would you like to exchange or get a refund?". She then apologised for me being told to deal with Bosch, and confirmed what  I had argued with other JL person, and what I argued here - the contract is with JL.  So I opted for the exchange, which was in the local JL (10 mins away) by 10am the next day. Swapped with no issue, no need to buy another kettle.

This is what I expect from JL, and they came good after the glitch!

arthurfowler

Exodi said:

CardinalWolsey said:

What others have perhaps missed is that you should always contact the retailer first, because as you say they are who you have the contract with. However, make that contact via email / phone / webchat etc and keep a log or ask for a call reference. This is because whilst they will invariably route you direct to the manufacturer, you want a record of having given the retailer the opportunity to resolve directly. This is important with regards to future "failed attempts" to repair etc. If you go direct to the manufacturer without having involved the retailer, you are in a worse legal position to enforce your consumer rights.

Oh come on, really... To what end? So the OP can take John Lewis to court over a cheap kettle (OP's description)?

He's not letting them repair it either, because then he would without a kettle, and that's probably a breach of his human rights. Maybe he should just take them directly to court in Strasbourg?

To the end that if it has a fault that can't be fixed, the OP can insist on a refund or replacement after the first failed repair attempt. This rather than repairing over and over which many retailers are happy to go on with. Without showing JL there has been a first repair attempt, the OP will find it difficult to exercise that right.