Agent won't share landlord details due to GDPR

Jemma01

Grumpy_chap said:

Good luck @Jemma01

Keep the letter short, polite and factual.  Don't put anything in about failure to respond or criticising the agent as you don't want to damage the relationship with the agent who you will be dealing with a first port of call going forwards.

In fact, you may wish to consider either writing to the agent and cc landlord, or vice-versa.  Depends who the normal first contact is with.

If the LL has simply been "playing" you, being the "good cop" versus the agent "bad cop" nothing will actually change.

I'll try to be polite because I've never had any correspondence with the landlord before.
Thanks for your advice

theartfullodger said:

Jemma01 said:

Thank you guys, very much appreciated. I found it, and the name does match. I must've cluelessly picked up the wrong one [not very educated when it comes to properties 😣]. I'm so relieved. I will write him a letter and attach pictures of the property. At least I would have cleared my conscious.

& in your shoes I'd copy it , calm & polite, to agent, keep copy.

Here is Shelter letter etc etc page I've been referring to, with draft
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/how_to_report_repairs_to_a_private_landlord
- and what else you can do.  

Shelter are the experts on all matters landlord/tenant, 0808 800 4444 for free helpline (expect a wait on the 'phone..)

Good luck, keep us informed!

Ah, thanks so much for putting the link, I went looking for it and didn't find my way to it. 🤩 And thanks for the note on the rent being due subject to the name and address being provided, that is totally news to me... not that i would act on it, because i do believe he's a nice landlord, but comforting to know that there is a balance.

canaldumidi said:

london21 said:

The tenancy agreement usually contains the landlord's details such as contact number and address. 

This is often (usually?), quite legally, the address/contact details of the letting agent. Indeed, it could be the landlord's best mate, or his mum. As long as there is AN address in Eng/Wales, then the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 S48 is complied with.

But as I explained earlier, the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S1 is an entirely different piece of leglislation and requires the agent to provide the LL's actual address if asked for it in writing.

I'm very grateful to you for stating the law explicitly, its very helpful to quote the rules so they don't try to play one a fool; I also found the s47 an interesting one too, which I understand also requires the landlord's 'actual' address and not the agent's address. Hope that's inline with your understanding?
I appreciate the education! 🌹

canaldumidi

Jemma01 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Good luck @Jemma01

Keep the letter short, polite and factual.  Don't put anything in about failure to respond or criticising the agent as you don't want to damage the relationship with the agent who you will be dealing with a first port of call going forwards.

In fact, you may wish to consider either writing to the agent and cc landlord, or vice-versa.  Depends who the normal first contact is with.

If the LL has simply been "playing" you, being the "good cop" versus the agent "bad cop" nothing will actually change.

theartfullodger said:

Jemma01 said:

Thank you guys, very much appreciated. I found it, and the name does match. I must've cluelessly picked up the wrong one [not very educated when it comes to properties 😣]. I'm so relieved. I will write him a letter and attach pictures of the property. At least I would have cleared my conscious.

& in your shoes I'd copy it , calm & polite, to agent, keep copy.

Here is Shelter letter etc etc page I've been referring to, with draft
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/how_to_report_repairs_to_a_private_landlord
- and what else you can do.  

Shelter are the experts on all matters landlord/tenant, 0808 800 4444 for free helpline (expect a wait on the 'phone..)

Good luck, keep us informed!

canaldumidi said:

london21 said:

The tenancy agreement usually contains the landlord's details such as contact number and address. 

This is often (usually?), quite legally, the address/contact details of the letting agent. Indeed, it could be the landlord's best mate, or his mum. As long as there is AN address in Eng/Wales, then the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 S48 is complied with.

But as I explained earlier, the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S1 is an entirely different piece of leglislation and requires the agent to provide the LL's actual address if asked for it in writing.

I'm very grateful to you for stating the law explicitly, its very helpful to quote the rules so they don't try to play one a fool; I also found the s47 an interesting one too, which I understand also requires the landlord's 'actual' address and not the agent's address. Hope that's inline with your understanding?
I appreciate the education! 🌹

Yes, but S47 is more relevant to a demand by a freeholder to a leaseholder (typicaly the owner of a flat). Bear in mind that as a tenant with an AST, you are contractually obliged to pay the rent agreed - no further demand for payment is required. If you fail to pay the rent, you will be in rent arrears whether the LL has demanded the rent or not.

Ah, thanks so much for putting the link, I went looking for it and didn't find my way to it. 🤩 And thanks for the note on the rent being due subject to the name and address being provided, that is totally news to me...

PLease note that once again you must distinguish between the two LL&T Acts. When artful said: "No rent is due if there is no address given for named landlord (England & Wales)" he is referring to the 1987 Act which requires AN address, which can be c/o the agent. The 1985 Act only applies if the T writes and requests the LL's address, and failure to comply does NOT mean rent is not due - the penalty for failing to comply with that act is criminal proceedings, usually undertaken by Trading Standards.

A_Lert

In the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S38 states "'address' means a person’s place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, its registered office". So if the landlord could call their agent's office their "place of business" they can give it.

[Deleted User]

A_Lert said:

In the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S38 states "'address' means a person’s place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, its registered office". So if the landlord could call their agent's office their "place of business" they can give it.

This would make sense to me. What legitimate purpose would it serve to compel a landlord to give their personal address, if they have provided a business address  where notices can be served.

Jemma01

[Deleted User] said:

A_Lert said:

In the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S38 states "'address' means a person’s place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, its registered office". So if the landlord could call their agent's office their "place of business" they can give it.

This would make sense to me. What legitimate purpose would it serve to compel a landlord to give their personal address, if they have provided a business address  where notices can be served.

@A_Lert
But that really doesn't make sense to me (and I admit to be totally ignorant in all this), unless the landlord is a director, or someone with payroll registration with the "place of business/company", how is any address he chooses represent him? Do contracts between landlords and agents state that they'll represent them in court or receive any notices on their behalf and therefore makes them accountable to making sure the landlord receives the notice?

Everywhere we need to prove our address, they ask for a letter with both name and address (and not any, it needs to be something official, bill, bank statement, etc). What proof can the landlord give with his name and agent address on it if they're using an agent address?

As far as everywhere I read, it says the landlord's address and not the agent. And it is fine if the landlord is a company, because you can find legal documents that has his address (company) with the company's name on it, and all the directors responsible for the company.

user1977

Jemma01 said:

[Deleted User] said:

A_Lert said:

In the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S38 states "'address' means a person’s place of abode or place of business or, in the case of a company, its registered office". So if the landlord could call their agent's office their "place of business" they can give it.

This would make sense to me. What legitimate purpose would it serve to compel a landlord to give their personal address, if they have provided a business address  where notices can be served.

@A_Lert
But that really doesn't make sense to me (and I admit to be totally ignorant in all this), unless the landlord is a director, or someone with payroll registration with the "place of business/company", how is any address he chooses represent him? 

Not sure of the relevance of "payroll registration" assuming it's a sole trader? Generally parties can provide an address at which they'll accept service of court documents etc. You're entitled to assume that if you write to him at that address, he'll receive the letter.

canaldumidi

There's a difference between "an address at which they'll accept service of court documents etc. " (the 1987 Act S48) and the LL's address (the 1985 Act S1).

The address for service of notices (1987 Act) can be anywhere at all within Eng /Wales. The legal assumption is that having supplied that address, the LL will be deemed to have received letters, court documents, sent there. Without such an address, rent is not due (the theory being that tenants must have some legal way to serve notices).

The LL's address (the 1985 Act) is not about service of notices. Yes, a business address can be provided, but it must be the LL's business address. He could only give the agent's address if he owned, or was employed by, the agency. By initiating the 1985 Act and making a written request for the LL's address (home or business), the tenant has a means to contact his LL directly rather than via the agent.