Japanese Knotweed - New Build - Excavation and offsite disposal

frullani

Hello,
I am in the process of buying a flat in a new development. We should do exchange and completion in 2 weeks, but my solicitor just found out that in the property there was Japanese Knotweed.
This was treated by the developer using a professional company that used the method of: Excavation and offsite disposal to landfill. There is a guarantee of 10 years and a managment plan. After 2 years from the treatment(Nov 2019) it seems that there is no signs of re-growth.
Now I am a bit worried that even if this has been treated might affect the value of the property in the future when reselling.
Should I be worried about this? If no re-growth will happen does future buyers will be put off just because in the site there used to be Japanese Knotweed?
Does anyone know situations in which even after excavation and offsite disposal the plant came back after a while? Is this likely to happen?

Thanks,

[Deleted User]

I guess the question is if they will do a proper survey or if they will just keep quiet for 10 years and hope you don't notice it growing back.

I'd assume you would have to get someone to survey it at the 9 year mark.

Carefully check out the guarantee too. It needs to be properly underwritten, or they will just dissolve the company and you will have nothing.

GDB2222

Yes, I agree with @[Deleted User] , unless the guarantee is backed by an insurance company, it is worthless.  If it's not insurance backed, I would walk away from this deal.

Any property that has had JKW is tainted to some extent. It's not as bad as was thought a few years ago, but it's still a problem. For example, you say that there is a management plan, well that means that there are additional costs on the service charges to cover the management plan. For years to come.

If this has only just been disclosed, at the last minute, you should think about negotiating something off the price. You are taking a risk by buying it, and of course that should be reflected in the price.  As the JKW has been treated probably successfully (you are absolutely sure that there's no evidence at all of recent recurrence?), a small discount to reflect the ongoing risk and costs would be appropriate IMHO.

frullani

In the Guarantee Warranty it says:

"We are very pleased to be able to offer a triple A star rated Insurance Backed Guarantee underwritten by Lloyds Syndicate, as per the enclosed document pack.

We continue to remain completely independent of networks such as the PCA and INNSA and choose to provide and rely upon our own market leading independent cover, which is the best available within the industry.

This extremely robust policy has been designed to offer the best cover available on the market, the key benefit being that the policy does not rely on an annual premium to be paid so will stand in the unlikely event that we cease to trade."

So seems like that the warranty is backed so this should be ok. I am not sure about the fact that they are not accredited by PCA or INNSA. Is this necessary?
In the agreement it says that they will check annualy any re-growth and last check that was in November showed no re-growth. 

I still have to see what the lender will decide about this. 
How much should be a reasonable discount to ask, 5% or more?
In the event of a future re-sale if there has been no regrowth for several years, would this needed to be declared when selling or after a few years this is consider fine?

user1977

In the context of a new(ish)build development (where presumably the whole site has been dug up to some degree and much of it built/tarmacked upon) I'm not sure this ought to be a huge concern - it's a bit different from someone trying to pick out the JK in an established garden (where people are understandably reluctant to bulldoze the whole thing).

5% (or any) discount is fanciful. The price is already established by whatever the houses have sold for.

TheJP

frullani said:

In the Guarantee Warranty it says:

"We are very pleased to be able to offer a triple A star rated Insurance Backed Guarantee underwritten by Lloyds Syndicate, as per the enclosed document pack.

We continue to remain completely independent of networks such as the PCA and INNSA and choose to provide and rely upon our own market leading independent cover, which is the best available within the industry.

This extremely robust policy has been designed to offer the best cover available on the market, the key benefit being that the policy does not rely on an annual premium to be paid so will stand in the unlikely event that we cease to trade."

So seems like that the warranty is backed so this should be ok. I am not sure about the fact that they are not accredited by PCA or INNSA. Is this necessary?
In the agreement it says that they will check annualy any re-growth and last check that was in November showed no re-growth. 

I still have to see what the lender will decide about this. 
How much should be a reasonable discount to ask, 5% or more?
In the event of a future re-sale if there has been no regrowth for several years, would this needed to be declared when selling or after a few years this is consider fine?

The problem has been rectified and backed by a 10 year insurance premium yet you want 5% off. If i was the seller and you asked for 5% reduction i would be relisting. There a lots of properties that had Japanese knotweed that has been treated and cleared.

frullani

TheJP said:

frullani said:

In the Guarantee Warranty it says:

"We are very pleased to be able to offer a triple A star rated Insurance Backed Guarantee underwritten by Lloyds Syndicate, as per the enclosed document pack.

We continue to remain completely independent of networks such as the PCA and INNSA and choose to provide and rely upon our own market leading independent cover, which is the best available within the industry.

This extremely robust policy has been designed to offer the best cover available on the market, the key benefit being that the policy does not rely on an annual premium to be paid so will stand in the unlikely event that we cease to trade."

So seems like that the warranty is backed so this should be ok. I am not sure about the fact that they are not accredited by PCA or INNSA. Is this necessary?
In the agreement it says that they will check annualy any re-growth and last check that was in November showed no re-growth. 

I still have to see what the lender will decide about this. 
How much should be a reasonable discount to ask, 5% or more?
In the event of a future re-sale if there has been no regrowth for several years, would this needed to be declared when selling or after a few years this is consider fine?

The problem has been rectified and backed by a 10 year insurance premium yet you want 5% off. If i was the seller and you asked for 5% reduction i would be relisting. There a lots of properties that had Japanese knotweed that has been treated and cleared.

I didn't know Japanese Knotweed before, seems like there is a stigma around it and lots of people are put off as soon as they hear about it.
My solictor told me that the lender will need to re-approve the mortgage after finding this out and I will need to sign a paper in which I declare that I am happy to proceed notwithstanding this may deter future buyers in the future and affect marketability. 
Therefore this sounds like a risk that I will have to take, that was not agreed at the beginning.

TheJP

frullani said:

TheJP said:

frullani said:

In the Guarantee Warranty it says:

"We are very pleased to be able to offer a triple A star rated Insurance Backed Guarantee underwritten by Lloyds Syndicate, as per the enclosed document pack.

We continue to remain completely independent of networks such as the PCA and INNSA and choose to provide and rely upon our own market leading independent cover, which is the best available within the industry.

This extremely robust policy has been designed to offer the best cover available on the market, the key benefit being that the policy does not rely on an annual premium to be paid so will stand in the unlikely event that we cease to trade."

So seems like that the warranty is backed so this should be ok. I am not sure about the fact that they are not accredited by PCA or INNSA. Is this necessary?
In the agreement it says that they will check annualy any re-growth and last check that was in November showed no re-growth. 

I still have to see what the lender will decide about this. 
How much should be a reasonable discount to ask, 5% or more?
In the event of a future re-sale if there has been no regrowth for several years, would this needed to be declared when selling or after a few years this is consider fine?

The problem has been rectified and backed by a 10 year insurance premium yet you want 5% off. If i was the seller and you asked for 5% reduction i would be relisting. There a lots of properties that had Japanese knotweed that has been treated and cleared.

I didn't know Japanese Knotweed before, seems like there is a stigma around it and lots of people are put off as soon as they hear about it.
My solictor told me that the lender will need to re-approve the mortgage after finding this out and I will need to sign a paper in which I declare that I am happy to proceed notwithstanding this may deter future buyers in the future and affect marketability. 
Therefore this sounds like a risk that I will have to take, that was not agreed at the beginning.

I completely understand but that risk is back by a 10 year insurance premium. Knotweed is much more known by people and the treatment is pretty effective. After 2 years it seems to be doing the job. What are you paying for the house? I would be pretty miffed if 2 weeks before exchange a reduction request of 5% came in especially given the treatment but its your decision to make.

LAD917

There are various threads on the board re: knotweed that you can search for.  Net-net, only the UK seems to regard this plant as problematic. During a recent trip to the U.S., I was laughing as I went jogging past multi-million dollar properties with knotweed growing on the grounds - buyers, sellers, and everyone else oblivious to the supposedly harmful nature of this plant.

The basement flat in one of my London buildings had knotweed. The knotweed maintenance treatment is relatively inexpensive - barely noticeable on a service charge budget, maybe a few hundred per year?  It's a bit of a joke, to be honest. The buyer did not ask for any concessions when I sold.  Multiple other units in the building changed hands for close to asking price / market rate.

I doubt you'll get much off unless there's something especially problematic about this instance of knotweed. Even the UK government has acknowledged that its policies are disproportionate, and I'd even go so far as to say that the knotweed hysteria is completely illogical, bordering on a hoax.

daveyjp

frullani said:

Does anyone know situations in which even after excavation and offsite disposal the plant came back after a while? Is this likely to happen?

Yes.

The knotweed was actually disposed off on site, 8m below the surface in a hole the size of two Olympic swimming pools, textile sheet and compacted soil placed on top and then built on.  After almost 15 years there has been no regrowth in that area whatsoever.

However the knotweed has come back, but it is of no surprise and expected because the land is next to the railway where knotweed is prevalent and its probably where it came from originally.  It was impossible to clear every knotweed plant along thousands of miles of railways as part of the project, but the knotweed now on site isn't a problem as its easily controlled.

If this development had a rogue plant chances are it has gone forever.  If the land is close to other sources, such as derelict land, railway or watercourses it could be back in a few years.  Unfortunately now isn't the time of year to spot it easily if you don't know what to look for.

frullani

Also I wonder about other people buying but not aware about this. The developer is not legally obliged to share this information by themselves, only if the buyer's solicitor request this info. 
I had to change solicitor during the process, the previous one never mentioned this because probably wasn't in their searches. So I wonder what happen if you buy without knowing, when you resell you won't be aware about this, therefore you will not share this information with the new buyer.
Or I am missing something?
The whole thing seems a big hole in the legislation.