How does overtime work if it's not in your contract?

Sandtree

happyc84 said:

why should anyone do unpaid overtime? Just pay your staff for the work and time required for the job.

Too many bad structures in Management expect staff to work extra for free, 

That depends on what you really think is happening @happyc84... take my last boss who was on £175,000 plus benefits and his contract will say he's on a 40 hour contract... do you think he should get overtime money for a meeting that needs to be scheduled at 5pm to find a gap our west cost US colleagues could make or do you think the £175k is really for "doing the job" and if he needs to go over 40hrs then he's senior enough to know that'll be the case for a multinational company and so the monies are for "the work and time required" rather than strictly for a set number of hours?

mark55man

well that's true, but doesn't apply where its expected of everyone - it shouldn't be up to minimum wage staff to keep a bad business alive 

TBagpuss

mark55man said:

well that's true, but doesn't apply where its expected of everyone - it shouldn't be up to minimum wage staff to keep a bad business alive 

If they are minimum wage then they have to be paid overtime if they work extra hours, otherwise they will fall below min. wage.

The point is that people earning more  generally don't have such rigid hours and aren't getting paid by the hour, they are getting paid to cover a certain role and that may include working additional hours at times, and/or working slightly different hours. 

mark55man

TBagpuss said:

mark55man said:

well that's true, but doesn't apply where its expected of everyone - it shouldn't be up to minimum wage staff to keep a bad business alive 

If they are minimum wage then they have to be paid overtime if they work extra hours, otherwise they will fall below min. wage.

The point is that people earning more  generally don't have such rigid hours and aren't getting paid by the hour, they are getting paid to cover a certain role and that may include working additional hours at times, and/or working slightly different hours. 

I'm not confident in the level of enforcement at that level.  I'm supremely confident that a lot of businesses at the dodgier end of the spectrum are exploiting workers.

I completely accept that as I am someone at the other end of the spectrum I put in the hours needed to get the job done, and if I'm being exploited (doesn't feel like that) then I can live with it.  I suggest the OP was closer to the being exploited end of the spectrum which is why I tried to focus the discussion back there 

Sandtree

mark55man said:

TBagpuss said:

mark55man said:

well that's true, but doesn't apply where its expected of everyone - it shouldn't be up to minimum wage staff to keep a bad business alive 

If they are minimum wage then they have to be paid overtime if they work extra hours, otherwise they will fall below min. wage.

The point is that people earning more  generally don't have such rigid hours and aren't getting paid by the hour, they are getting paid to cover a certain role and that may include working additional hours at times, and/or working slightly different hours. 

I'm not confident in the level of enforcement at that level.  I'm supremely confident that a lot of businesses at the dodgier end of the spectrum are exploiting workers.

I completely accept that as I am someone at the other end of the spectrum I put in the hours needed to get the job done, and if I'm being exploited (doesn't feel like that) then I can live with it.  I suggest the OP was closer to the being exploited end of the spectrum which is why I tried to focus the discussion back there 

Unfortunately there are reasons that for the Modern Slavery Act needing to exist etc but that doesnt mean that all or even the majority of businesses are paying their employees under minimum wage. 

There are inevitably debates on when work time starts, is it the moment you've walked through the front door of the building or the time you're sat at the desk, coffee ready, head set on and computer logged in? I believe the law, or at least case law, is fairly clear but this can contribute to a feeling of exploitation even if the law doesnt agree (known enough people consider their "working hours" to be when they leave the front door of the house until they get to the front door of their house/pub.

Not sure the OP really implied they were close to NMW, entry level banking roles whilst not paid the millions that most people imagine when the phrase "banker" is used do tend to be above NMW comfortably and the wording of the second job sounds like going to the events as an attendee rather than waiting staff etc and its not often that attendees of networking events are NMW level.

[Deleted User]

At the time I was on £19k and got overtime. As a Manager, I was on £27k and had no overtime. I do believe that I would have made more money if I was doing the managers role on £19k plus overtime.

With the roles I have had since, none of them have had overtime but I feel that the compensation and freedom given mitigated that no problem. Recent roles mean I can more judges by tasks completed. If I've done everything, I can almost put my feet up and just react to things coming my way. 

Smithcom

happyc84 said:

why should anyone do unpaid overtime? Just pay your staff for the work and time required for the job.

Too many bad structures in Management expect staff to work extra for free, 

I think that it depends on the situation.  If it's a role which lends itself to an hourly rate, then you are probably correct.

On salaried roles, within reason, the salary is for doing the job, and is not linked to an hourly remuneration.

In my experience, coincidentally, the persons who rigidly stick to contracted hours tend to miss out on responsibility, promotion, bonuses, wage increases etc.   Then wonder why they are not doing so well in their career/not earning so much money etc.

There is certainly a discussion to be had regarding work ethic and how this relates to career opportunities and rewards.

The ones to go that extra mile usually do better in their career, and are generally more successful.

happyc84

Unfortunately the pressure put on staff to work an extra 10 to 20%  unpaid o/t every week in the UK is a ticking health time bomb.

Hopefully as more employees kick back we can have a more enlightened business model.

Barny1979

happyc84 said:

why should anyone do unpaid overtime? Just pay your staff for the work and time required for the job.

Too many bad structures in Management expect staff to work extra for free, 

I presume you don't work in the Public Sector

ryan7

Deleted_User said:

At the time I was on £19k and got overtime. As a Manager, I was on £27k and had no overtime. I do believe that I would have made more money if I was doing the managers role on £19k plus overtime.

With the roles I have had since, none of them have had overtime but I feel that the compensation and freedom given mitigated that no problem. Recent roles mean I can more judges by tasks completed. If I've done everything, I can almost put my feet up and just react to things coming my way. 

Your £27k was guaranteed minimum though. 
If there was a sudden change to working patterns and OT I'd rather be on £27k than the £19k without potential to earn more. 
Discuss it with your employer. Take it as TOIL if you can. 
It may well be that working beyond core hours is just expected from an employee in your position.