Click and collect - distance selling

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TELLIT01 said:

I'm surprised to discover the Click and Collect is covered by distant selling rules as the purchaser can check the item in store before taking it away.

They may, in some cases, be able to check it before taking it away. However this is still a check after the contract is complete - it is not inspecting the goods pre-purchase. 

TELLIT01

Sandtree said:

TELLIT01 said:

I'm surprised to discover the Click and Collect is covered by distant selling rules as the purchaser can check the item in store before taking it away.

There's almost a contradiction there @tellit01 as if it didnt count as a distance selling then the purchaser couldnt check the item in store and then reject it as they'd have already bought it and so if it were not counted as distance selling then there would be no statutory right of return.

Click & Collect - sale completed before getting the goods, distance regs apply
Click & Reserve - sale completed in store, distance regs don't apply

I see the subtle difference now. 

Ergates

HeinzVarieties said:

Ergates said:

HeinzVarieties said:

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Royal Mail certainly isn't an individual or a natural person, but I'm pretty certain it's still a "legal person".  (Isn't that the whole point of incorporation - indeed the meaning of it?)

If an Act of Parliament refers to "a person" - without any further qualification - doesn't that include a company, and in this case a company where click and collect can be collected from?

I always though of a business as an entity but you may very well be right.

Unless the store was a separate legal person the goods can't have come into possession of someone they haven't left, i.e if you order from Argos to an Argos store the store is still Argos and so possession hasn't changed. 

If they were ordered from Argos and the click and collect location was a Post Office then that may be a person named by the consumer if the law is considering a business as a person.  

To get a definitive ruling this would have to go to court as it's definitely a grey area.  Pretty much what you say:

If you have your goods delivered to a local shop who are separate from the seller (e.g. our local coop can receive amazon goods for you) then, to me, that would count as it being delivered to "a person", even though it's a shop - as it's an entity other than the seller than you nominated.

However, for click and collect, if it's just another branch of the same store you've ordered from, then I wouldn't think that would count?  What if the branch you nominated had the goods in stock anyway and just got them ready for you?  Would that count as a delivery?

It's not that difficult really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person

To which countries legal system is that referring?  It doesn't actually say...

It doesn't have to, it is a basic definition.

Since we're playing pedants

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/790C/2015-05-26?view=plain

(5)A “legal entity” is a body corporate or a firm that is a legal person under the law by which it is governed.(5)

Funny that, isn't it?

That's the definition of a "legal entity", not the definition of a "legal person".   Neither of which clarifies whether, when the Consumer Contracts regulartions refer to "a person" if they mean a "legal person", a "natural person", or either or both, or something else.

Jenni_D

You may need to read guidance notes for the CCRs to see if it clarifies that point. (I haven't so I don't know, but that's possibly where it might be).  

Sandtree

Jenni_D said:

You may need to read guidance notes for the CCRs to see if it clarifies that point. (I haven't so I don't know, but that's possibly where it might be).  

Even if it does I doubt it goes into the level of detail of considering if the "a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them" can be the retailer themselves and if it makes any difference if the logistics company is also the same legal entity or a third party courier.

If it was all the retailer then "14 days after the day on which the goods come into the physical possession of" is the date they got the goods from their wholesaler which could be months (or longer) before the sale was made (lets assume small shop with goods already in stock to avoid the web of companies multinationals have etc)

Jenni_D

I agree - I was merely pointing to where that discussion point may resolve an answer. In the scheme of Click & Collect, the point of possession (IMHO, IANAL etc.) is when the consumer collects the goods, not when the collection point received them.

Ergates

Jenni_D said:

I agree - I was merely pointing to where that discussion point may resolve an answer. In the scheme of Click & Collect, the point of possession (IMHO, IANAL etc.) is when the consumer collects the goods, not when the collection point received them.

For "normal" Click and Collect - where you collect from a store - then I definitely agree.   I don't think it's so clear-cut when the collection point is, for instance, a post office.  Are the post office acting as an agent for the retailer (an extension of the store), or as an agent for the customer (a friendly neighbour who will take the parcels for you)?

The post office are presumably being paid, by the retailer (or courier), for providing this service - which nudges it towards the former in my mind.