Click and collect - distance selling

Jet-77

They are a small business so the store is themselves.
They hold their stock at that location and parcel it up for collection.
So it was not sent to them to hold on my behalf, its more like I selected it and paid for it in full online from viewing an image of the item, they packaged it and put it to one side. I could have chosen delivery but I chose to collect.

If by not collecting it on time the ability to return within 14 days has expired then its a lesson learned for me.

Ergates

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Royal Mail certainly isn't an individual or a natural person, but I'm pretty certain it's still a "legal person".  (Isn't that the whole point of incorporation - indeed the meaning of it?)

If an Act of Parliament refers to "a person" - without any further qualification - doesn't that include a company, and in this case a company where click and collect can be collected from?

I always though of a business as an entity but you may very well be right.

Unless the store was a separate legal person the goods can't have come into possession of someone they haven't left, i.e if you order from Argos to an Argos store the store is still Argos and so possession hasn't changed. 

If they were ordered from Argos and the click and collect location was a Post Office then that may be a person named by the consumer if the law is considering a business as a person.  

To get a definitive ruling this would have to go to court as it's definitely a grey area.  Pretty much what you say:

If you have your goods delivered to a local shop who are separate from the seller (e.g. our local coop can receive amazon goods for you) then, to me, that would count as it being delivered to "a person", even though it's a shop - as it's an entity other than the seller than you nominated.

However, for click and collect, if it's just another branch of the same store you've ordered from, then I wouldn't think that would count?  What if the branch you nominated had the goods in stock anyway and just got them ready for you?  Would that count as a delivery?

HeinzVarieties

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Royal Mail certainly isn't an individual or a natural person, but I'm pretty certain it's still a "legal person".  (Isn't that the whole point of incorporation - indeed the meaning of it?)

If an Act of Parliament refers to "a person" - without any further qualification - doesn't that include a company, and in this case a company where click and collect can be collected from?

I always though of a business as an entity but you may very well be right.

Unless the store was a separate legal person the goods can't have come into possession of someone they haven't left, i.e if you order from Argos to an Argos store the store is still Argos and so possession hasn't changed. 

If they were ordered from Argos and the click and collect location was a Post Office then that may be a person named by the consumer if the law is considering a business as a person.  

To get a definitive ruling this would have to go to court as it's definitely a grey area.  Pretty much what you say:

If you have your goods delivered to a local shop who are separate from the seller (e.g. our local coop can receive amazon goods for you) then, to me, that would count as it being delivered to "a person", even though it's a shop - as it's an entity other than the seller than you nominated.

However, for click and collect, if it's just another branch of the same store you've ordered from, then I wouldn't think that would count?  What if the branch you nominated had the goods in stock anyway and just got them ready for you?  Would that count as a delivery?

It's not that difficult really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person

MarvinDay

HeinzVarieties said:

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Royal Mail certainly isn't an individual or a natural person, but I'm pretty certain it's still a "legal person".  (Isn't that the whole point of incorporation - indeed the meaning of it?)

If an Act of Parliament refers to "a person" - without any further qualification - doesn't that include a company, and in this case a company where click and collect can be collected from?

I always though of a business as an entity but you may very well be right.

Unless the store was a separate legal person the goods can't have come into possession of someone they haven't left, i.e if you order from Argos to an Argos store the store is still Argos and so possession hasn't changed. 

If they were ordered from Argos and the click and collect location was a Post Office then that may be a person named by the consumer if the law is considering a business as a person.  

To get a definitive ruling this would have to go to court as it's definitely a grey area.  Pretty much what you say:

If you have your goods delivered to a local shop who are separate from the seller (e.g. our local coop can receive amazon goods for you) then, to me, that would count as it being delivered to "a person", even though it's a shop - as it's an entity other than the seller than you nominated.

However, for click and collect, if it's just another branch of the same store you've ordered from, then I wouldn't think that would count?  What if the branch you nominated had the goods in stock anyway and just got them ready for you?  Would that count as a delivery?

It's not that difficult really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person

Ah, Wikipedia. That font of knowledge used by legal professionals the world over.

To quote the website itself:

Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.

Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here

HeinzVarieties

MarvinDay said:

HeinzVarieties said:

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Royal Mail certainly isn't an individual or a natural person, but I'm pretty certain it's still a "legal person".  (Isn't that the whole point of incorporation - indeed the meaning of it?)

If an Act of Parliament refers to "a person" - without any further qualification - doesn't that include a company, and in this case a company where click and collect can be collected from?

I always though of a business as an entity but you may very well be right.

Unless the store was a separate legal person the goods can't have come into possession of someone they haven't left, i.e if you order from Argos to an Argos store the store is still Argos and so possession hasn't changed. 

If they were ordered from Argos and the click and collect location was a Post Office then that may be a person named by the consumer if the law is considering a business as a person.  

To get a definitive ruling this would have to go to court as it's definitely a grey area.  Pretty much what you say:

If you have your goods delivered to a local shop who are separate from the seller (e.g. our local coop can receive amazon goods for you) then, to me, that would count as it being delivered to "a person", even though it's a shop - as it's an entity other than the seller than you nominated.

However, for click and collect, if it's just another branch of the same store you've ordered from, then I wouldn't think that would count?  What if the branch you nominated had the goods in stock anyway and just got them ready for you?  Would that count as a delivery?

It's not that difficult really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person

Ah, Wikipedia. That font of knowledge used by legal professionals the world over.

To quote the website itself:

Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.

Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here

Which any website is going to have a disclaimer for if they have any sense.

Besides, ragging on Wikipedia because it's user-edited is so 2009.

Ergates

HeinzVarieties said:

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Royal Mail certainly isn't an individual or a natural person, but I'm pretty certain it's still a "legal person".  (Isn't that the whole point of incorporation - indeed the meaning of it?)

If an Act of Parliament refers to "a person" - without any further qualification - doesn't that include a company, and in this case a company where click and collect can be collected from?

I always though of a business as an entity but you may very well be right.

Unless the store was a separate legal person the goods can't have come into possession of someone they haven't left, i.e if you order from Argos to an Argos store the store is still Argos and so possession hasn't changed. 

If they were ordered from Argos and the click and collect location was a Post Office then that may be a person named by the consumer if the law is considering a business as a person.  

To get a definitive ruling this would have to go to court as it's definitely a grey area.  Pretty much what you say:

If you have your goods delivered to a local shop who are separate from the seller (e.g. our local coop can receive amazon goods for you) then, to me, that would count as it being delivered to "a person", even though it's a shop - as it's an entity other than the seller than you nominated.

However, for click and collect, if it's just another branch of the same store you've ordered from, then I wouldn't think that would count?  What if the branch you nominated had the goods in stock anyway and just got them ready for you?  Would that count as a delivery?

It's not that difficult really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person

To which countries legal system is that referring?  It doesn't actually say...

HeinzVarieties

Ergates said:

HeinzVarieties said:

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Royal Mail certainly isn't an individual or a natural person, but I'm pretty certain it's still a "legal person".  (Isn't that the whole point of incorporation - indeed the meaning of it?)

If an Act of Parliament refers to "a person" - without any further qualification - doesn't that include a company, and in this case a company where click and collect can be collected from?

I always though of a business as an entity but you may very well be right.

Unless the store was a separate legal person the goods can't have come into possession of someone they haven't left, i.e if you order from Argos to an Argos store the store is still Argos and so possession hasn't changed. 

If they were ordered from Argos and the click and collect location was a Post Office then that may be a person named by the consumer if the law is considering a business as a person.  

To get a definitive ruling this would have to go to court as it's definitely a grey area.  Pretty much what you say:

If you have your goods delivered to a local shop who are separate from the seller (e.g. our local coop can receive amazon goods for you) then, to me, that would count as it being delivered to "a person", even though it's a shop - as it's an entity other than the seller than you nominated.

However, for click and collect, if it's just another branch of the same store you've ordered from, then I wouldn't think that would count?  What if the branch you nominated had the goods in stock anyway and just got them ready for you?  Would that count as a delivery?

It's not that difficult really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person

To which countries legal system is that referring?  It doesn't actually say...

It doesn't have to, it is a basic definition.

Since we're playing pedants

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/790C/2015-05-26?view=plain

(5)A “legal entity” is a body corporate or a firm that is a legal person under the law by which it is governed.(5)

Funny that, isn't it?

TELLIT01

I'm surprised to discover the Click and Collect is covered by distant selling rules as the purchaser can check the item in store before taking it away.

MarvinDay

TELLIT01 said:

I'm surprised to discover the Click and Collect is covered by distant selling rules as the purchaser can check the item in store before taking it away.

That doesn't stop it from classing as a distance contract.
To qualify as a distance sale, the contract must be concluded totally at a distance and conclusion of a contract means a point has been reached at which the buyer is obliged to pay and the seller is obliged to supply the goods.

Sandtree

TELLIT01 said:

I'm surprised to discover the Click and Collect is covered by distant selling rules as the purchaser can check the item in store before taking it away.

There's almost a contradiction there @tellit01 as if it didnt count as a distance selling then the purchaser couldnt check the item in store and then reject it as they'd have already bought it and so if it were not counted as distance selling then there would be no statutory right of return.

Click & Collect - sale completed before getting the goods, distance regs apply
Click & Reserve - sale completed in store, distance regs don't apply