unpaid PCN, court hearing letter - case CLOSED

Le_Kirk

kokolino23 said:

Le_Kirk said:

Well done on removing your claim number.  The plain fact is you did agree (well the driver did) to pay it, as it is on the signs in the car park which form your contract.  Just follow the advice given by @Umkomaas and start compiling your defence.  Do you still have the original PCN?  Can you check if it is POFA compliant?  If it is not then do not identify the driver, as a keeper cannot be held liable for the actions of a driver on a non-compliant PCN.

Unfortunately I can't find the original PCN, was issued on 06/2017. Would be fun asking them to provide it. I can also say that I did appeal through the email but they didn't bother to reply ?! Not sure if that counts though.

You can submit a SAR to the DPO of the PPC and you might get your data back in time to use it for the defence (given your deadline is 9th January) otherwise just use the info in the WS later in the process.  Just make sure you mention lack of detail in the POC in your defence.  Are you defending as keeper and driver or keeper and not driver?

kokolino23

Le_Kirk said:

kokolino23 said:

Le_Kirk said:

Well done on removing your claim number.  The plain fact is you did agree (well the driver did) to pay it, as it is on the signs in the car park which form your contract.  Just follow the advice given by @Umkomaas and start compiling your defence.  Do you still have the original PCN?  Can you check if it is POFA compliant?  If it is not then do not identify the driver, as a keeper cannot be held liable for the actions of a driver on a non-compliant PCN.

Unfortunately I can't find the original PCN, was issued on 06/2017. Would be fun asking them to provide it. I can also say that I did appeal through the email but they didn't bother to reply ?! Not sure if that counts though.

You can submit a SAR to the DPO of the PPC and you might get your data back in time to use it for the defence (given your deadline is 9th January) otherwise just use the info in the WS later in the process.  Just make sure you mention lack of detail in the POC in your defence.  Are you defending as keeper and driver or keeper and not driver?

Defending as a keeper, the driver was someone else.

Le_Kirk

kokolino23 said:

Le_Kirk said:

You can submit a SAR to the DPO of the PPC and you might get your data back in time to use it for the defence (given your deadline is 9th January) otherwise just use the info in the WS later in the process.  Just make sure you mention lack of detail in the POC in your defence.  Are you defending as keeper and driver or keeper and not driver?

Defending as a keeper, the driver was someone else.

In which case it is important to obtain the PCN to see if it was POFA compliant because if it was not, you have protection as keeper that the driver does not have.

kokolino23

Le_Kirk said:

kokolino23 said:

Le_Kirk said:

You can submit a SAR to the DPO of the PPC and you might get your data back in time to use it for the defence (given your deadline is 9th January) otherwise just use the info in the WS later in the process.  Just make sure you mention lack of detail in the POC in your defence.  Are you defending as keeper and driver or keeper and not driver?

Defending as a keeper, the driver was someone else.

In which case it is important to obtain the PCN to see if it was POFA compliant because if it was not, you have protection as keeper that the driver does not have.

How can I obtain the PCN, please? Apologies if is already mentioned on the newbies thread, I'm joggling between work and the forum, I'll go properly through that section later this evening. Thank you

Umkomaas

kokolino23 said:

Le_Kirk said:

kokolino23 said:

Le_Kirk said:

You can submit a SAR to the DPO of the PPC and you might get your data back in time to use it for the defence (given your deadline is 9th January) otherwise just use the info in the WS later in the process.  Just make sure you mention lack of detail in the POC in your defence.  Are you defending as keeper and driver or keeper and not driver?

Defending as a keeper, the driver was someone else.

In which case it is important to obtain the PCN to see if it was POFA compliant because if it was not, you have protection as keeper that the driver does not have.

How can I obtain the PCN, please? Apologies if is already mentioned on the newbies thread, I'm joggling between work and the forum, I'll go properly through that section later this evening. Thank you

Send the PPC a SAR. See the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post, for a link to a template for you to use. 10 minutes job. 

Redx

As above , the SAR reply will give you copies of the PCN to see if it complied with POFA or not

If it did , you may be liable as a non driving keeper !

We can still see your data in the picture on page 1 , definitely your MCOL login password , bottom right !
Plus the VRM details are showing in the POC on the left

kokolino23

@Umkomaas

@KeithP

@D_P_Dance

@Le_Kirk

@Redx

Thank you very much for your advice and replies

I've sent the PPC a SAR by email, their solicitor doesn't have a contact email addres on their website (no suprise) but I've done it through their Defendant Response form and took a print screen shot showing the date.

I will fill an AoS tomorrow or Monday and keep you updated.

Redx

kokolino23 said:

@Umkomaas

@KeithP

@D_P_Dance

@Le_Kirk

@Redx

Thank you very much for your advice and replies

I've sent the PPC a SAR by email, their solicitor doesn't have a contact email addres on their website (no suprise) but I've done it through their Defendant Response form and took a print screen shot showing the date.

I will fill an AoS tomorrow or Monday and keep you updated.

What have you sent to their solicitor ?

There is nothing to send to them , yet !!

kokolino23

Another interesting thing that came through my mind.

Found this article

Link removed because the info is not accurate as pointed by MSE members.

Private companies can only invoice you for what they see as breach of contract, they can’t fine you for breaking the rules.

Parking in that area was free and speaking to my wife, she said that the spaces are not clearly marked. I'm curious to see what their evidence shows as they have to prove the car was not parked within one of these spaces.

Redx

They cannot fine you at all !! Period !! As explained on channel 5 two days ago !

They can invoice you for a breach of contract by the driver ( or possibly pass liability to the keeper ), be it on rules , an overstay , non payment , major keying errors etc

Proportionality was also thrown out 6 years ago in the Beavis case , but they cannot penalise you either because the penalty aspect came up in the Beavis case too

Signage , space markings , landowner authority , the laws like the CRA and POFA all come into the cases

Some of us have been advising on this topic since we'll before 2015 , coupon mad for a decade or more 🤔🤔👍👍❤️❤️

Hence her appearance on TV ( beach lady )

Ps , articles like that one contain many inaccuracies , so much so I wouldn't trust them , not when they don't tell the full story and contain words like fines and penalties !