Threatening Debt Collectors for Payment of Non-Delivered Items

born_again

boogieboa said:

I took pictures of the delivery and sent them to the seller at the time. Frankly, PayPal opened a dispute giving them ample time to respond, which they did not, and the case was settled in my favour.

A refund was made for the undelivered portion of the order, and the case closed. However, if the seller has proof of a subsequent package delivered to my address, let them sue me.

Thanks again for your responses.

Which has no legal standing. As in this case you are talking PayPal dispute process/regulations. 
Because they did not contest, you won by default. 

As we have to say when people open a chargeback. While we may win & refund you. If the retailer feels they have a right to the money, they have a right to chase you via whatever means they deem suitable.

@Jenni_D
Covers it nicely. Get all you proof in place now, ready for the court papers.

boogieboa

born_again said:

boogieboa said:

I took pictures of the delivery and sent them to the seller at the time. Frankly, PayPal opened a dispute giving them ample time to respond, which they did not, and the case was settled in my favour.

A refund was made for the undelivered portion of the order, and the case closed. However, if the seller has proof of a subsequent package delivered to my address, let them sue me.

Thanks again for your responses.

Which has no legal standing. As in this case you are talking PayPal dispute process/regulations. 
Because they did not contest, you won by default. 

As we have to say when people open a chargeback. While we may win & refund you. If the retailer feels they have a right to the money, they have a right to chase you via whatever means they deem suitable.

@Jenni_D
Covers it nicely. Get all you proof in place now, ready for the court papers.

PayPal’s Buyer Protection programme entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any, when you don’t receive your item from a seller, or when you receive an item, but the item isn’t what you ordered.

HeinzVarieties

boogieboa said:

born_again said:

boogieboa said:

I took pictures of the delivery and sent them to the seller at the time. Frankly, PayPal opened a dispute giving them ample time to respond, which they did not, and the case was settled in my favour.

A refund was made for the undelivered portion of the order, and the case closed. However, if the seller has proof of a subsequent package delivered to my address, let them sue me.

Thanks again for your responses.

Which has no legal standing. As in this case you are talking PayPal dispute process/regulations. 
Because they did not contest, you won by default. 

As we have to say when people open a chargeback. While we may win & refund you. If the retailer feels they have a right to the money, they have a right to chase you via whatever means they deem suitable.

@Jenni_D
Covers it nicely. Get all you proof in place now, ready for the court papers.

PayPal’s Buyer Protection programme entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any, when you don’t receive your item from a seller, or when you receive an item, but the item isn’t what you ordered.

Which has no legal standing.

Those are PayPal's rules, nobody else's.  And certainly not the law.

boogieboa

HeinzVarieties said:

boogieboa said:

born_again said:

boogieboa said:

I took pictures of the delivery and sent them to the seller at the time. Frankly, PayPal opened a dispute giving them ample time to respond, which they did not, and the case was settled in my favour.

A refund was made for the undelivered portion of the order, and the case closed. However, if the seller has proof of a subsequent package delivered to my address, let them sue me.

Thanks again for your responses.

Which has no legal standing. As in this case you are talking PayPal dispute process/regulations. 
Because they did not contest, you won by default. 

As we have to say when people open a chargeback. While we may win & refund you. If the retailer feels they have a right to the money, they have a right to chase you via whatever means they deem suitable.

@Jenni_D
Covers it nicely. Get all you proof in place now, ready for the court papers.

PayPal’s Buyer Protection programme entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any, when you don’t receive your item from a seller, or when you receive an item, but the item isn’t what you ordered.

Which has no legal standing.

Those are PayPal's rules, nobody else's.  And certainly not the law.

Since I paid through PayPal, I think I'll stick with what they say, and leave it at that.

HeinzVarieties

boogieboa said:

HeinzVarieties said:

boogieboa said:

born_again said:

boogieboa said:

I took pictures of the delivery and sent them to the seller at the time. Frankly, PayPal opened a dispute giving them ample time to respond, which they did not, and the case was settled in my favour.

A refund was made for the undelivered portion of the order, and the case closed. However, if the seller has proof of a subsequent package delivered to my address, let them sue me.

Thanks again for your responses.

Which has no legal standing. As in this case you are talking PayPal dispute process/regulations. 
Because they did not contest, you won by default. 

As we have to say when people open a chargeback. While we may win & refund you. If the retailer feels they have a right to the money, they have a right to chase you via whatever means they deem suitable.

@Jenni_D
Covers it nicely. Get all you proof in place now, ready for the court papers.

PayPal’s Buyer Protection programme entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any, when you don’t receive your item from a seller, or when you receive an item, but the item isn’t what you ordered.

Which has no legal standing.

Those are PayPal's rules, nobody else's.  And certainly not the law.

Since I paid through PayPal, I think I'll stick with what they say, and leave it at that.

But if you get sued by the company, you can't use PayPal's decision as some sort of evidence you are legally in the right.

PayPal's decisions are based entirely on their own rules that they dreamt up, and have nothing to do with the law (other than a passing resemblance to some consumer rights protections perhaps.)

boogieboa

I can prove I didn't receive the goods, so I don't see the issue here. How will the law make me pay for something I did not receive?

PayPal acts as an arbitrator between seller and buyer when you use their platform, and both parties signup for that, which makes it legally binding. 

HeinzVarieties

boogieboa said:

I can prove I didn't receive the goods, so I don't see the issue here. How will the law make me pay for something I did not receive?

PayPal acts as an arbitrator between seller and buyer when you use their platform, and both parties signup for that, which makes it legally binding. 

PayPal are not the arbiters of the law, they're arbiters of their own rules.

PayPal's rules may be more or less generous than the law allows but it doesn't really matter. What PayPal decided is their business and theirs alone, they are not a court and cannot decide legal cases.  Regardless of what they decide the other party is free to just sue you in court.  The same applies to chargebacks on debit and credit cards.

Jenni_D

boogieboa said:

I can prove I didn't receive the goods, so I don't see the issue here

How? (Genuine question, hence why I've stressed the point about evidence and balance of probabilities). How do you prove a negative?

born_again

boogieboa said:

born_again said:

boogieboa said:

I took pictures of the delivery and sent them to the seller at the time. Frankly, PayPal opened a dispute giving them ample time to respond, which they did not, and the case was settled in my favour.

A refund was made for the undelivered portion of the order, and the case closed. However, if the seller has proof of a subsequent package delivered to my address, let them sue me.

Thanks again for your responses.

Which has no legal standing. As in this case you are talking PayPal dispute process/regulations. 
Because they did not contest, you won by default. 

As we have to say when people open a chargeback. While we may win & refund you. If the retailer feels they have a right to the money, they have a right to chase you via whatever means they deem suitable.

@Jenni_D
Covers it nicely. Get all you proof in place now, ready for the court papers.

PayPal’s Buyer Protection programme entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any, when you don’t receive your item from a seller, or when you receive an item, but the item isn’t what you ordered.

Exactly the same a Visa/Mastercard chargeback rules. Which like PayPal regulations are over and above your LEGAL consumer rights.

Please do not think that you can go to court if it gets that far & just use that as your defense. It will fail. Yes it could be used to point out that the retailer did not contest the dispute as they had a right to do. But do back it up with proof of what your received, what you did to advise the company anything they said that admitted that one part was missing.

And as @Jenni_D how can you prove they did not send anything? Did they send any emails on the missing item?

ThumbRemote

born_again said:

boogieboa said:

born_again said:

boogieboa said:

I took pictures of the delivery and sent them to the seller at the time. Frankly, PayPal opened a dispute giving them ample time to respond, which they did not, and the case was settled in my favour.

A refund was made for the undelivered portion of the order, and the case closed. However, if the seller has proof of a subsequent package delivered to my address, let them sue me.

Thanks again for your responses.

Which has no legal standing. As in this case you are talking PayPal dispute process/regulations. 
Because they did not contest, you won by default. 

As we have to say when people open a chargeback. While we may win & refund you. If the retailer feels they have a right to the money, they have a right to chase you via whatever means they deem suitable.

@Jenni_D
Covers it nicely. Get all you proof in place now, ready for the court papers.

PayPal’s Buyer Protection programme entitles you to reimbursement for the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping costs you paid, if any, when you don’t receive your item from a seller, or when you receive an item, but the item isn’t what you ordered.

Exactly the same a Visa/Mastercard chargeback rules. Which like PayPal regulations are over and above your LEGAL consumer rights.

Please do not think that you can go to court if it gets that far & just use that as your defense. It will fail. Yes it could be used to point out that the retailer did not contest the dispute as they had a right to do. But do back it up with proof of what your received, what you did to advise the company anything they said that admitted that one part was missing.

And as @Jenni_D how can you prove they did not send anything? Did they send any emails on the missing item?

A key factor in any (completely hypothetical) court case would be the retailer demonstrating they had delivered the parcel. Since the OP seems to have good records of the issue, and the retailer doesn't seem to have a clue what they are doing, I don't think there's any need for the OP to be concerned on that score. 

In any case, I very much doubt it will get to court. The demanding invoices will be sent out almost automatically, taking someone to court will need more human input which will force them to look at the matter again.