Saint + Sofia "no refunds on sale items"

gabiieve

Dear all,

I've been having a back and forth with the online brand Saint + Sofia. I purchased an item of clothing (< £100) from them and wanted to return it because it didn't fit. I paid by Paypal (selecting my credit card). I contacted them within 2 days of the item's arrival and they are claiming that because the item was on the Black Friday sale it is not eligible for a refund (only exchanges or store credit).

I've told them they aren't allowed to breach online consumer rights like this, and just wanted to check how to proceed. If they stand their ground I will open a case with Paypal. Is there any chance Paypal will disagree with me and I will loose that money? If they still don't back down and I have to escalate to a claim, how do I send the item back if the brand won't send me their warehouse address? Am I allowed to just ship it to their London atelier? I assume I should only ship it once Paypal has refunded me/closed the case.

Thank you for your help. 

Sandtree

PayPal almost certainly won't uphold the case until you have returned the item. According to their site you can return Black Friday items for a store credit/exchange and so you can return the item for a credit and then claim from PayPal for breach of your statutory rights... if PayPal will support you is a separate question as its not a legal process but one governed by their T&Cs

gabiieve

Sandtree said:

PayPal almost certainly won't uphold the case until you have returned the item. According to their site you can return Black Friday items for a store credit/exchange and so you can return the item for a credit and then claim from PayPal for breach of your statutory rights... if PayPal will support you is a separate question as its not a legal process but one governed by their T&Cs

Hi Sandtree, thank your for your help. I haven't started the return process because I didn't want them to claim I "accepted their store credit". Wouldn't Paypal see it that way as well?

If Paypal does not support me do I have any other recourse? Like you said, my statutory rights are being breached.

Sandtree

gabiieve said:
If Paypal does not support me do I have any other recourse? Like you said, my statutory rights are being breached.

The alternative is small track court claim which you'd need to deal with initially with a letter before action advising them of your intent if you don't get a satisfactory resolution.

You are ultimately going to have to return the goods however as equally a court wont reimburse you if you are still holding the goods. You have a finite time to return the goods once you've exercised your right to notify the vendor of your intent to return them; though there can be arguments that the vendor has frustrated this if they fail to provide the necessary retails to effect the return. 

gabiieve

Sandtree said:

The alternative is small track court claim which you'd need to deal with initially with a letter before action advising them of your intent if you don't get a satisfactory resolution.

You are ultimately going to have to return the goods however as equally a court wont reimburse you if you are still holding the goods. You have a finite time to return the goods once you've exercised your right to notify the vendor of your intent to return them; though there can be arguments that the vendor has frustrated this if they fail to provide the necessary retails to effect the return. 

Thank you Sandtree. I have gone through Paypal's T&Cs, and there's a specific step to send items back. I will give the seller another day to answer my last email, if that fails I will start Paypal's resolution and claim process (which includes sending it back). If that fails and the shop doesn't give me their address, I will have to send it to their atelier and go to small claims court. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. If they had a smaller size of the item I would've just exchanged it and gotten over this nightmare, but now that we're here I don't want to write off almost £100.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Paypal will provide an address for the return if you open a case, it's doubtful they will entertain a claim over customer rights, their claims process is for not as described. 

Another company with terms way off what they should be, they seem to react to comments on Facebook, perhaps worth a comment there to ask why they don't abide by UK consumer law. 

gabiieve

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Paypal will provide an address for the return if you open a case, it's doubtful they will entertain a claim over customer rights, their claims process is for not as described. 

Another company with terms way off what they should be, they seem to react to comments on Facebook, perhaps worth a comment there to ask why they don't abide by UK consumer law. 

Hi, yes I did notice this type of claim wasn't listed in Paypal's website... the idea of claiming there came from reading Trustpilot reviews where people have done so (to what end I don't know). It's almost a pity that it wasn't over £100 since then I could claim using my credit card. I will try social media thank you 

gabiieve

UPDATE: after letting them know that I was going to follow up on other conflict resolution options, they have offered me a refund as a special gesture.. At least this is over now

kay_1985

Oh wow I'm having very similar difficulty with Saint and Sofia on a purchase of x3 jackets totalling £250! I cannot remember their website advising I would not be entitled to a refund upon purchase as it is a sale item. I cannot exchange for another size as they are out of stock. I have been mislead and their website continues to state on the product page '30 Day Refund Guarantee' with no mention of this refund policy.

One of the jackets is out of the 14 day window so I may have to accept a credit note for that. I thought I had much longer and the jackets were covered by a Christmas return period. I did not realise I needed to inform them within 14 days of my intention to refund but that's my fault. 

The other two are within the 14 day window and they've declined a refund as it was a sale item. I have read confusing and rather conflicting information online about my consumer rights in this regard. Can you signpost me to a link, or confirm from your own understanding whether I am entitled to a refund irrespective of the fact the jackets were reduced please? No problem if not, I will call the consumer helpline tomorrow. 

I paid by debit card so PayPal does not apply to my purchase. 

I will too consider small claims if needed as I feel very badly treated. 

Thank you. 

born_again

gabiieve said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Paypal will provide an address for the return if you open a case, it's doubtful they will entertain a claim over customer rights, their claims process is for not as described. 

Another company with terms way off what they should be, they seem to react to comments on Facebook, perhaps worth a comment there to ask why they don't abide by UK consumer law. 

Hi, yes I did notice this type of claim wasn't listed in Paypal's website... the idea of claiming there came from reading Trustpilot reviews where people have done so (to what end I don't know). It's almost a pity that it wasn't over £100 since then I could claim using my credit card. I will try social media thank you 

except because you used paypal, that idea is out of the window. No S75 when using PayPal.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

kay_1985 said:

One of the jackets is out of the 14 day window so I may have to accept a credit note for that.

What timeframe do they give you in the email (or paper with the order) to cancel your contract?

If it's only 7 days as stated in their T&Cs page then you'd have 1 year and 14 days to cancel your contract and be entitled to a fund refund back to the original method of payment.

In terms of links:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34

(7) The trader must make the reimbursement using the same means of payment as the consumer used for the initial transaction, unless the consumer has expressly agreed otherwise.

Worth a note I don't think expressly agreed means they can sign away this right by simply stating you agreed to their T&Cs.