FIRE? Unless you hate or are bad at your job, isn't work the best part of life?

RogerIrvine

femalemonarchfemalecanine said:

RogerIrvine said:

Tenure to a paying post seems to be an invaluable perk. For example septuagenarian Paul Dacre has recently demurred from re-applying 

for the prestigious chair of the kingdom's media regulator to be parachuted into a more lucrative private sector post. In his 80th year, great football manager Sir Alex Ferguson continues as Manchester United's Global Ambassador, after a stroke. 

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

thinking you need a job for 'focus' sounds like a monumental failure of imagination to me. what a weird notion. 

Then what is the intuitive leap we need to progress into retirement? Cos I just see a rocking chair. Good gardener? Love your grandchildren?  Retirement seems like a cosy vacuum. But if you don't have much left in the way of energy or ideas, not a bad idea.

lisyloo

RogerIrvine said:

femalemonarchfemalecanine said:p

RogerIrvine said:

Tenure to a paying post seems to be an invaluable perk. For example septuagenarian Paul Dacre has recently demurred from re-applying 

for the prestigious chair of the kingdom's media regulator to be parachuted into a more lucrative private sector post. In his 80th year, great football manager Sir Alex Ferguson continues as Manchester United's Global Ambassador, after a stroke. 

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

thinking you need a job for 'focus' sounds like a monumental failure of imagination to me. what a weird notion. 

Then what is the intuitive leap we need to progress into retirement? Cos I just see a rocking chair. Good gardener? Love your grandchildren?  Retirement seems like a cosy vacuum. But if you don't have much left in the way of energy or ideas, not a bad idea.

Well for everyone who sees pipe & slippers maybe there is someone else who sees Mount Everest or iron person triathlons.
I’ve no idea where this idea of cosy, wan or taking it easy comes from.
I intend to be as busy if not more so but doing more of the things I want when I want rather than to someone else agenda. I like my job but I don’t get to pick my hours or projects.
perhaps age makes a difference? But I suspect it’s more to do with attitude/imagination.

RogerIrvine

lisyloo said:

RogerIrvine said:

femalemonarchfemalecanine said:p

RogerIrvine said:

Tenure to a paying post seems to be an invaluable perk. For example septuagenarian Paul Dacre has recently demurred from re-applying 

for the prestigious chair of the kingdom's media regulator to be parachuted into a more lucrative private sector post. In his 80th year, great football manager Sir Alex Ferguson continues as Manchester United's Global Ambassador, after a stroke. 

Acknowledged that us in the middling MSE crowd don't have that leverage, still, isn't it better to have the focus of a job? I may be wrong and obviously no disrespect intended  but get the impression that tax-considerations or, even worse, a failure of imagination lies behind this FIRE goal.

thinking you need a job for 'focus' sounds like a monumental failure of imagination to me. what a weird notion. 

Then what is the intuitive leap we need to progress into retirement? Cos I just see a rocking chair. Good gardener? Love your grandchildren?  Retirement seems like a cosy vacuum. But if you don't have much left in the way of energy or ideas, not a bad idea.

 But I suspect it’s more to do with attitude/imagination.

Yes, because the word "retirement" means retreat or withdrawal and even in the stricter sense of leaving a job denotes no activity to take its place. A vacuum. Entirely passive. Receding from life. Acquiescence. Abdication. People may have stuff they thought they "never had a chance to do before" but I'm not sure they will find it was work stopping them.

Anonymous101

I've long thought the RE part of FIRE was a misnomer. Far from retiring, most people that are into the idea of FIRE in my experience are moving towards a different kind of life where the focus moves away from income and towards quality of life. That often, but not always includes some kind of work.

hugheskevi

RogerIrvine said:

Yes, because the word "retirement" means retreat or withdrawal and even in the stricter sense of leaving a job denotes no activity to take its place. A vacuum. Entirely passive. Receding from life. Acquiescence. Abdication. People may have stuff they thought they "never had a chance to do before" but I'm not sure they will find it was work stopping them.

The first thing I plan to do in retirement is spend 2 years traveling across the Americas and a few other places - work certainly stops me from doing that.

Then I plan to return and live in a very rural area. Work wouldn't quite stop that, but makes it considerably more difficult and less enjoyable.

I rather hope to take up rowing again. To do that in London would have required getting up at an ungodly hour to travel to the river to get in sessions at dawn so as to get back well before everyone has to be at work. Not really viable unless living close to a rowing club, and not very enjoyable. Where I will be moving to I can drive to sessions, which also start later.

I'll also take up bridge again - I gave it up many years ago as to be at a decent standard required putting in more hours than I was wiling to commit, especially for tournaments taking 2+ days. But with no work there will be much more time for such things.

I'll also have plenty of time to actively participate in a running club, both as a runner and also to help organise running the club and races. Whereas now I mostly just attend as a runner after work, and sometimes lead a small group.

I should also have a lot more time to cycle for recreation, whereas previously cycling has been commuting to and from work.

Swimming should also become a regular activity, whereas now it is just a substitute for running whenever injured. It should also be paired with a gym membership, which will be much more enjoyable going there at quieter times.

There will be time to have a couple of dogs about the home too, something that we haven't had until now as we wouldn't want to have dogs that spend a lot of time on their own with just a dog-walker at lunchtime.

Depending on where we live, I may well volunteer at an osprey centre during Spring and Summer, something prevented by work.

I'm very much looking forward to abdicating

lisyloo

If work means “activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result” then I do not intend to retire from work.

I agree the FI bit is the most important then you can do what you like.

RogerIrvine

Pity the things we enjoy/excel at are not necessarily what society pays us for. But if you have the conviction and the passion, and ability, don't wait until you are retired to do what you love. 

lisyloo

I do love my job and I value that greatly and do not need to stop the minute I reach FI (nor plan to).
however the chance to do it a bit more on my terms when I reach FI would be great e.g.  not worrying about saying no to things or speaking truth to power or asking for more leave, different hours without being so worried about the consequences.
to sum it up - a bit more on my terms.
Im halfway there already and it’s very liberating.

doing a bit more of what you want and on your own terms is a million miles from retreating from life in my personal experience, rather the other way round.

RogerIrvine

Good points lisyloo and hugheskevi but watch out for others encroaching on your new found time. So much easier to dodge a social engagement citing work commitments.

Go well.

TweetnDave

This has probably already been said, only had time to read the first few pages. The concept of FIRE gives you the opportunity to do what your imagination and desires take you.... before infirmity or death takes it away.

 By way of example, my parents retired from their small business at about state pension age. 8 years later, my father is close to being housebound due to incurable ill health. He will most likely die with I guess half a million in assets that he was not able to enjoy. My mother is not quite so ill - but trips abroad are becoming very hard even if covid was not around. 

 Maybe think of it this way... what do you want to do this weekend for fun ? Wouldn't it be great if you were not limited to just saturday and sunday ? For me, getting out by mid-forties has been the plan for many years not just for the 7 day weekend but my best marketable skill is easily transferable to a lower paid country - it is only a matter of time.