FIRE? Unless you hate or are bad at your job, isn't work the best part of life?

bostonerimus

Nebulous2 said:

zagfles said:

ex-pat_scot said:

MallyGirl said:

Probably best that I don't elaborate on the greenhouse I went to look at last week !

We are all different and the have to do what works for us as individuals

The key (in my opinion) is to know yourself and to spend intentionally.
That's not the same as "cheap", but differs from person to person.
I do spend on high end stuff, for certain matters.
I can't ever have enough money to satisfy all my "wants", but more than enough for my "needs".

You can by cheap functional greenhouses, and beautifully-made ones that are robust, add value and give more years of service. If you have sufficient, and will make use of it, then there is no reason to deny yourself.
You can't have the best of everything you want, but you can certainly have the best of the things that are most important to you.

F'rinstance - mountaineering fleeces. 
You can buy cheap <£10 ones.
I spent a large part of my student grant on a Patagonia one, justified at the time by the Alpine adventures I was up to. I'm wearing it all week this week.  Bought in 1988.

The point isn't "cheap" or "expensive", it's getting value!! If a fleece costs £300 and lasts 30 years whereas a cheap one costs £10 and lasts less than a year, clearly the more expensive one is better value. Or if you buy a £2000 bike which you use every day for 10 years then spending an extra £1800 on something you get slightly better enjoyment from on a daily basis is probably good value.

But with a lot of stuff, there is minimal value from paying sometimes considerably more, as per some of the examples earlier. As discussed a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking they need costly additional fluff which doesn't really add value, and as a result they don't achieve FI. We're probably all guilty of this to some extent with some products and services, but some people do it with practically everything they buy! And as a result, can't achieve FI when they want, or even ever.

Lifestyle choices - people may well be frugal in some areas and not in others. I've probably had more cars below £1000 than over it in the course of my life. I've few financial ambitions and we have brought up a family on one relatively modest salary. By comparison with others on here - though it was relatively decent by comparison with most people working in care, which is where I've spent my life. 

I started cycling around 10 years ago however, and it changed my life. Spending on that has gradually increased, from budget equipment to higher end stuff as our finances improved. I'd now regard a £2000 bike as a moderate one. My new titanium one, which should arrive tomorrow, was more than twice that. 

In some ways I may be too late to benefit from it.

I remember somebody in my local selling his business, retiring and buying himself a fancy new car. The regulars were split between envy and scorn.  The barman's comment was: - "God gives us nuts when we're too old to crack them." 

I'm a n+1 bike owner too. My frames are either steel or carbon. My holidays usually consist of strapping camping equipment to my Specialized Diverge and heading somewhere exciting. I've ridden across the USA and Canada, Iceland and plan to ride the length of the UK once Covid has quietened down.

kinger101

Nebulous2 said:

ex-pat_scot said:

Nebulous2 said:

I started cycling around 10 years ago however, and it changed my life. Spending on that has gradually increased, from budget equipment to higher end stuff as our finances improved. I'd now regard a £2000 bike as a moderate one. My new titanium one, which should arrive tomorrow, was more than twice that. 

In some ways I may be too late to benefit from it.

 

My new frameset is £4,000
Extraordinary amount. 
Rest of the bike will be existing bits and pieces.
When finished, it will be the absolute best.
I'm not too late to benefit from it - well not entirely.
However I am wearing old clothes (expensive, but last forever). I haven't changed size (much) since 18.
My colleagues mostly drive Mercs and Range Rovers. I have different priorities and spending.

Frankly @Nebulo@Nebulous2 you will be the perfect age to benefit from yours. You'll hopefully have the time and flexibility to make use of it, and it will make more of a health difference now than it would be when you were younger.

Thank - you, it's very kind of you to say so. My interests are very specific, long - distance endurance stuff, not racing. While speed drops off with age, stamina doesn't drop as much.  That's my theory anyway!

My bike is intended as the best for my intended use - a specific tool rather than an all-rounder.  

Time and  LEL (London- Edinburgh - London) will tell if I'm right! 

It's been a while since I've been out on my bike, but my motto was "never try to keep up with anything in lycra".  Not that I could with a steel frame.

zagfles

RogerIrvine said:

zagfles said:

RogerIrvine said:

"As discussed a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking they need costly additional fluff which doesn't really add value, and as a result they don't achieve FI. We're probably all guilty of this to some extent with some products and services, but some people do it with practically everything they buy! And as a result, can't achieve FI when they want, or even ever." - 

On the other hand, zagfles, there is a strong argument for paying top-dollar to buy into the latest gadgetry, while the penny pinchers wait for the price to drop next year. Frugality, hard work and inching forward can be very improving and all that but in my experience being ahead of the curve - even slightly for a short time - is the best way to start a fortune. Once you get above water and have more money than you need, it is easy.

Or paying £1k for a handbag, 

Nah, I'll stick behind the curve.

Depends you look at it, zagfles. The handbag abides; and equates to 6p for every time you have posted on this moneysavingwebsite.

Or maybe 1p per word for the Rolex

Bravepants

zagfles said:

RogerIrvine said:

zagfles said:

RogerIrvine said:

"As discussed a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking they need costly additional fluff which doesn't really add value, and as a result they don't achieve FI. We're probably all guilty of this to some extent with some products and services, but some people do it with practically everything they buy! And as a result, can't achieve FI when they want, or even ever." - 

On the other hand, zagfles, there is a strong argument for paying top-dollar to buy into the latest gadgetry, while the penny pinchers wait for the price to drop next year. Frugality, hard work and inching forward can be very improving and all that but in my experience being ahead of the curve - even slightly for a short time - is the best way to start a fortune. Once you get above water and have more money than you need, it is easy.

Or paying £1k for a handbag, 

Nah, I'll stick behind the curve.

Depends you look at it, zagfles. The handbag abides; and equates to 6p for every time you have posted on this moneysavingwebsite.

Or maybe 1p per word for the Rolex

I was in New York once, it was Aprll and freezing cold and my partner and I were ducking in and out of shops and shopping malls to keep warm. We went into a watch shop because I liked the look of one on display in the window. It was very ornate and had all sort of dials on the face, and it looked fantastic. I went in and asked about it and the guy took it out of the tray and handed it to me. I asked how much and he goes "Seven, Five"...I kind of thought "Oh $7500, OK fair enough...kind of", and then he says "$75,000". Needless to say I handed the thing back to him very carefully! It's a collection of metals, minerals and organic materials extracted from the earth and organised in a particlar way, in the same way that other objects are collections of metals, minerals and organic material extracted from the Earth. Why is it so expense because it was built by some guy called "Patek"?

I know me and watches, they are on my wrist for half an hour and then I'm walking around and I accidentally bashing them on a radiator or a wall or something.

Albermarle

kinger101 said:

Nebulous2 said:

ex-pat_scot said:

Nebulous2 said:

I started cycling around 10 years ago however, and it changed my life. Spending on that has gradually increased, from budget equipment to higher end stuff as our finances improved. I'd now regard a £2000 bike as a moderate one. My new titanium one, which should arrive tomorrow, was more than twice that. 

In some ways I may be too late to benefit from it.

 

My new frameset is £4,000
Extraordinary amount. 
Rest of the bike will be existing bits and pieces.
When finished, it will be the absolute best.
I'm not too late to benefit from it - well not entirely.
However I am wearing old clothes (expensive, but last forever). I haven't changed size (much) since 18.
My colleagues mostly drive Mercs and Range Rovers. I have different priorities and spending.

Frankly @Nebulo@Nebulous2 you will be the perfect age to benefit from yours. You'll hopefully have the time and flexibility to make use of it, and it will make more of a health difference now than it would be when you were younger.

Thank - you, it's very kind of you to say so. My interests are very specific, long - distance endurance stuff, not racing. While speed drops off with age, stamina doesn't drop as much.  That's my theory anyway!

My bike is intended as the best for my intended use - a specific tool rather than an all-rounder.  

Time and  LEL (London- Edinburgh - London) will tell if I'm right! 

It's been a while since I've been out on my bike, but my motto was "never try to keep up with anything in lycra".  Not that I could with a steel frame.

Or with only three Sturmey Archer gears  

zagfles

Bravepants said:

zagfles said:

RogerIrvine said:

zagfles said:

RogerIrvine said:

"As discussed a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking they need costly additional fluff which doesn't really add value, and as a result they don't achieve FI. We're probably all guilty of this to some extent with some products and services, but some people do it with practically everything they buy! And as a result, can't achieve FI when they want, or even ever." - 

On the other hand, zagfles, there is a strong argument for paying top-dollar to buy into the latest gadgetry, while the penny pinchers wait for the price to drop next year. Frugality, hard work and inching forward can be very improving and all that but in my experience being ahead of the curve - even slightly for a short time - is the best way to start a fortune. Once you get above water and have more money than you need, it is easy.

Or paying £1k for a handbag, 

Nah, I'll stick behind the curve.

Depends you look at it, zagfles. The handbag abides; and equates to 6p for every time you have posted on this moneysavingwebsite.

Or maybe 1p per word for the Rolex

I was in New York once, it was Aprll and freezing cold and my partner and I were ducking in and out of shops and shopping malls to keep warm. We went into a watch shop because I liked the look of one on display in the window. It was very ornate and had all sort of dials on the face, and it looked fantastic. I went in and asked about it and the guy took it out of the tray and handed it to me. I asked how much and he goes "Seven, Five"...I kind of thought "Oh $7500, OK fair enough...kind of", and then he says "$75,000". Needless to say I handed the thing back to him very carefully! It's a collection of metals, minerals and organic materials extracted from the earth and organised in a particlar way, in the same way that other objects are collections of metals, minerals and organic material extracted from the Earth. Why is it so expense because it was built by some guy called "Patek"?

I know me and watches, they are on my wrist for half an hour and then I'm walking around and I accidentally bashing them on a radiator or a wall or something.

Indeed - a £50 timex would likely give you the same functionality. But at least with this sort of stuff, and things like people paying £1M to buy an original painting by a famous artist instead of a good copy that only an expert with a magnifying glass could identify, it's mainly the ultra rich who can't think of anything else to spend their money on.

But the same sort of thing happens at a lower level with people of ordinary means, I know someone who made a lot of money by going to charity shops in posh areas and buying designer clothes for a few £ and selling them on ebay to stupid people for 10x the price or more. A few times he had people asking if they could wait till payday before paying, sometimes for items costing several hundred!! Or even worse asking if he could wait till their "payday loan" comes through!!

RogerIrvine

zagfles said:

Bravepants said:

zagfles said:

RogerIrvine said:

zagfles said:

RogerIrvine said:

"As discussed a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking they need costly additional fluff which doesn't really add value, and as a result they don't achieve FI. We're probably all guilty of this to some extent with some products and services, but some people do it with practically everything they buy! And as a result, can't achieve FI when they want, or even ever." - 

On the other hand, zagfles, there is a strong argument for paying top-dollar to buy into the latest gadgetry, while the penny pinchers wait for the price to drop next year. Frugality, hard work and inching forward can be very improving and all that but in my experience being ahead of the curve - even slightly for a short time - is the best way to start a fortune. Once you get above water and have more money than you need, it is easy.

Or paying £1k for a handbag, 

Nah, I'll stick behind the curve.

Depends you look at it, zagfles. The handbag abides; and equates to 6p for every time you have posted on this moneysavingwebsite.

Or maybe 1p per word for the Rolex

I was in New York once, it was Aprll and freezing cold and my partner and I were ducking in and out of shops and shopping malls to keep warm. We went into a watch shop because I liked the look of one on display in the window. It was very ornate and had all sort of dials on the face, and it looked fantastic. I went in and asked about it and the guy took it out of the tray and handed it to me. I asked how much and he goes "Seven, Five"...I kind of thought "Oh $7500, OK fair enough...kind of", and then he says "$75,000". Needless to say I handed the thing back to him very carefully! It's a collection of metals, minerals and organic materials extracted from the earth and organised in a particlar way, in the same way that other objects are collections of metals, minerals and organic material extracted from the Earth. Why is it so expense because it was built by some guy called "Patek"?

I know me and watches, they are on my wrist for half an hour and then I'm walking around and I accidentally bashing them on a radiator or a wall or something.

Indeed - a £50 timex would likely give you the same functionality. But at least with this sort of stuff, and things like people paying £1M to buy an original painting by a famous artist instead of a good copy that only an expert with a magnifying glass could identify, it's mainly the ultra rich who can't think of anything else to spend their money on.

But the same sort of thing happens at a lower level with people of ordinary means, I know someone who made a lot of money by going to charity shops in posh areas and buying designer clothes for a few £ and selling them on ebay to stupid people for 10x the price or more. A few times he had people asking if they could wait till payday before paying, sometimes for items costing several hundred!! Or even worse asking if he could wait till their "payday loan" comes through!!

Doh!  those blithering millionaires buying Van Gogh, Bacon and Picasso for £1M a canvas!

kinger101

Albermarle said:

kinger101 said:

Nebulous2 said:

ex-pat_scot said:

Nebulous2 said:

I started cycling around 10 years ago however, and it changed my life. Spending on that has gradually increased, from budget equipment to higher end stuff as our finances improved. I'd now regard a £2000 bike as a moderate one. My new titanium one, which should arrive tomorrow, was more than twice that. 

In some ways I may be too late to benefit from it.

 

My new frameset is £4,000
Extraordinary amount. 
Rest of the bike will be existing bits and pieces.
When finished, it will be the absolute best.
I'm not too late to benefit from it - well not entirely.
However I am wearing old clothes (expensive, but last forever). I haven't changed size (much) since 18.
My colleagues mostly drive Mercs and Range Rovers. I have different priorities and spending.

Frankly @Nebulo@Nebulous2 you will be the perfect age to benefit from yours. You'll hopefully have the time and flexibility to make use of it, and it will make more of a health difference now than it would be when you were younger.

Thank - you, it's very kind of you to say so. My interests are very specific, long - distance endurance stuff, not racing. While speed drops off with age, stamina doesn't drop as much.  That's my theory anyway!

My bike is intended as the best for my intended use - a specific tool rather than an all-rounder.  

Time and  LEL (London- Edinburgh - London) will tell if I'm right! 

It's been a while since I've been out on my bike, but my motto was "never try to keep up with anything in lycra".  Not that I could with a steel frame.

Or with only three Sturmey Archer gears  

I guess I could try taking the stabilizers off if I really wanted to go faster.

Ibrahim5

I've got a 1960s bike with a steel frame and Sturmey Archer 3 speed. If you pump the tyres up, true the wheels, grease the hubs it's amazing how fast they are. Need to stand up to pedal uphill. You wouldn't RACE with them but for normal commuter use the differences in speed from a modern bike are small and insignificant. The big difference comes with braking. Modern bikes are much better at stopping than older ones.

Thrugelmir

zagfles said:

RogerIrvine said:

"As discussed a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking they need costly additional fluff which doesn't really add value, and as a result they don't achieve FI. We're probably all guilty of this to some extent with some products and services, but some people do it with practically everything they buy! And as a result, can't achieve FI when they want, or even ever." - 

On the other hand, zagfles, there is a strong argument for paying top-dollar to buy into the latest gadgetry, while the penny pinchers wait for the price to drop next year. Frugality, hard work and inching forward can be very improving and all that but in my experience being ahead of the curve - even slightly for a short time - is the best way to start a fortune. Once you get above water and have more money than you need, it is easy.

Nah - no argument at all for paying £60 a month for 2 years for a £1000 phone with 50GB of data a month, 512GB of storage, and a super fast processor designed for fast gaming when you mainly use it for WhatsApp and messenger and a few non processor/storage hungry apps, never exceed 2GB a month and never use more than 10% of the available storage. Like some people do. Just because they want to be "ahead of the curve".

Companies such as Apple are clever are selling you something that you don't actually need. Unsurprising that Musk has recruited many employees from Apple. Copying the culture of what has made Apple iconic.